Mandatory vaccinations to access nursery and school?

[rickyrickygrimes]

I’m British but have lived in France since my youngest was 5 months old. Both my children had to have a full programme of vaccinations (I think it’s 11 in total) before starting nursery / school. I’m surprised to find out that there aren’t any mandatory vaccinations for children going into a group setting here in the UK and wondered how that would go down if it was required? Especially now that there seen to be rising numbers of children are not being vaccinated against serious illnesses such as measles.

The second part of this post is the most sensible thing I’ve ever heard on this topic.

Informed choice.

There was no actual evidence for this theory and it was always a hypothetical. The JCVI have dropped it as a rationale now, thankfully. Just as well, because I'm not sure many parents would be persuaded their kids should take some more for the team, after the covid experience.

Found the statement from them

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/childhood-varicella-vaccination-programme-jcvi-advice-14-november-2023/jcvi-statement-on-a-childhood-varicella-chickenpox-vaccination-programme

The only informed choice is to vaccinate against childhood diseases, absent a real and genuine reason not to.

Piss poor understanding of risk, or more likely just selfish freeloading, is not a real and genuine reason.

This is a really interesting post as my child will be starting school in the USA in a couple of weeks and have a baby on the way and I was naively not aware that it was a mandate for children to be vaccinated in order to attend school there.

My initial reaction was shock and oddly, discomfort. Not because my child doesn’t have all the required vaccines (aside from chickenpox which they caught in the UK from nursery), but because I am used to having the choice in the UK and because it seems to give the government power to mandate future vaccines for our children with short notice or new vaccines that I may not be as comfortable with.

@rickyrickygrimesPerhaps more a British thing, but people appreciate agency as it gives them the sense that their voice matters and that they have control over their life. I suspect if they introduced vaccine mandates in the UK people would be up in arms. I don’t necessarily think it’s because they would be against vaccinations, but more to do with the principles that they are used to as the change would make people feel that they have less choice and freedom than what they once had. Also, people generally don’t like change!

I have also heard of people getting doctors to falsely sign-off on a vaccine or exemption card so that they can circumvent the rules, but then it catches up with them when their child does get ill from say Measles.

It’s a problem because we don’t want children of the kind of people who think it’s ok to play with their safety being even more isolated. They already have negligent parents, these children are vulnerable and at risk.

I’m the vaccines your children took were effective, how could unvaccinated children pose a risk to them- genuine question?

Other countries do it and it's normal where I am, @hypnovic it never even occurred to me that the UK wouldn't do it. We're talking about children here. Not adults. They don't have medical autonomy for a reason; because they're too young, that's why us adults make decisions for them. If you neglect your child and don't get them immunised, you (your child) don't get to use the schools. Very fair and straight forward.

Is that really a question? If you don't understand how this works, then you need to do a 'lot' more research before making your own medical decisions.

Just because one was 'vaccine damaged' doesn't mean the other will be.

And it's not the vaccine substance itself, it's the fever (which is a natural response to foreign matter entering the body) that over-heats the brain that causes these conditions. Keep your child cool for awhile after they've had the vaccine and you shouldn't have any problems.

Some children’s immune systems don’t work well due to various medical conditions and either can’t be vaccinated or don’t respond enough to get immunity. Those children are at high risk.

Babies too young to be vaccinated are also at risk from other people’s unvaccinated children eg an unvaccinated toddler with measles attends a playgroup, birthday party, soft play etc where lots of Mums have brought along baby siblings.

Isn't it the case that it's particularly a specific ethnic minority group in a specific area not vaccinating? So how would you get around that?

Because it’s the sensible, obvious solution to the rise of diseases such as measles, I’m afraid I don’t expect any U.K. government of whatever colour to have the guts to introduce such a rule. It would surely be against sundry small minorities’ human/religious rights, and the lawyers would be rubbing their hands in glee.

Exactly.

And mandating attending the appointments is a good step towards that. You can get into the actual risks of both approaches, and not the superficial combined with inertia.

I’ve had an allergic reaction to a vaccination, and it’s mighty difficult to get good quality information on risks / benefits of future vaccinations. Even on occasion when I attend the sodding appointment and ask - but if that became the norm then it would improve.

(after the four attempts it took to get a flu vaccination with bad asthma, because the first three couldn’t work out whether there was a risk so said best not to. Eventually found a prescribing pharmacist who worked out there was no overlap in ingredients and cracked on).

Agree.
All my kids have had their vaccinations. Except the Covid jab. I opted out of that for them.

I think all parents should be allowed to choose whether or not their children are vaccinated. I also think that the children should be offered to be vaccinated when they turn 18 if their parents opted out.

I don’t like the idea that the government gets to take away choices.

If they're still in utero or newborn, it can and does kill them.

The problem is that the MMR causes autism link still lingers. Autism isn’t a disease you can catch though so why would injecting a child make them have autism.

it makes no scientific sense. It would imply there is a cure for autism if you can catch autism. before the haters start, I’m not saying that ND people need to be cured.

what does kill is the diseases they made vaccines for. Go round a cemetery from 100 years ago and see all the children buried there. They made vaccines because people were dying.

I had mumps (I had been vaccinated) and gave it to my step grandad who was hospitalised with mumps and very poorly. Touch and go if he would pull through as it was early 1980s.

it’s all good saying I’m not vaccinating but you are relying on everyone else and the people that can’t be vaccinated are then not protected.

we will see children and elderly die unnecessarily because of people’s choices.

So, if you don't get your child vaccinated, it's child neglect?

And If you do get your child vaccinated and he suffers permanent brain damage, it isn't child neglect?

Wow!
And they say we're the stupid ones.....

So, if you don't get your child vaccinated, it's child neglect?

Yes.

And If you do get your child vaccinated and he suffers permanent brain damage, it isn't child neglect?

No.

Wow!
And they say we're the stupid ones.....

Yes.

HTH.

Can I ask, please. From those that don’t vaccinate. How you feel about certain scenarios, so I can understand, not so I can criticise.

my children are vaccinated, however I am from a medical based family, and I found the experience horrific. Mainly due to my health anxiety and to research and online cases.

I am the mother who sat in the waiting room for two hours in case of reaction. Who then took temperature every half hour for two days after. Who cleared the diary for a week after.

in the event that you do not vaccinate, and there is a breakout of let’s say beans, which is a standard vaccine. What do you then do? Do you accept medical treatment if your child becomes unwell? Antibiotics, etc.
if you were pregnant, and there was an outbreak of beans, and you lost your baby would that change your view on future vaccines.

if there is an outbreak of beans, and your best friend loses her baby, and her grandfather, and her children are vaccinated, does that pose a moral dilemma?

is the focus of not vaccinating purely about your own children? Or does the feeling extend to others.

Even if mine have say a sick bug, and I keep them home. I worry that perhaps they spread it before I knew. So in the event of a beans outbreak, is that something that terrifies you. Or is it not a concern?

Your reply makes you look so foolish...

HTH

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

It really doesn’t make the pp look foolish. What she says is obviously right.