Mandatory vaccinations to access nursery and school?

[rickyrickygrimes]

I’m British but have lived in France since my youngest was 5 months old. Both my children had to have a full programme of vaccinations (I think it’s 11 in total) before starting nursery / school. I’m surprised to find out that there aren’t any mandatory vaccinations for children going into a group setting here in the UK and wondered how that would go down if it was required? Especially now that there seen to be rising numbers of children are not being vaccinated against serious illnesses such as measles.

@TheNightingalesStarling I think that everyone should have to attend an appointment even if to just officially refuse, maybe with an official declaration you understand the risks of not vaccinating.

That sounds sensible to me. People should be free to opt out, but opting out should not be any less hassle than opting in so attending each required session at the right time should be mandatory, unless there is an already-diagnosed issue with vaccine allergies.

Our cat had a massive near-fatal allergic reaction to her 2nd set of vaccinations. The nornal policy wording for her health insurance says that the policy isn't valid if she doesn't have her annual vaccine boosters, but because of her medical history we have a written agreement that so long as she has an annual health checkup she is covered. Something similar for humans should be possible.

That is the worst logic I've ever heard.

Taking the simple step of having a long established vaccination against preventable illnesses doesn't cause the economy to ground to a halt and people to die for other reasons, which is what would have happened if everyone had completely isolated during COVID.

Sometimes society doesn't have the time, the patience or the resources to teach stupid people not to be stupid.

Sometimes it's quicker and more effective to just say, "OK, no vaccination, no nursery funding, no child benefit, no passport."

I asked if anyone on this thread knew someone who had suffered permanent brain damage from a vaccine?

Unsurprisingly, it seems no one does.

Hey ho, carry on.

Sometimes there is an obviously right choice and a wrong one. This is one of those times. I don't care what you think.

You let me know when that attitude starts to be effectual in raising the vaccination rates.

I agree OP

chosing not to vaccinated but wishing to send your child into an area where risk of exposure and infection is high. Makes little sense. Herd immunity only works where the majority are vaccinated. So in such a scenario, those who could not be vaccinated would be around only those who had been.

anyone else would not be able to access schools, nurseries. They would however, still get medical treatment when their child got sick.

good fiction book, the herd. Around parenting differences on vaccines and consequences.

I imagine you stamped your feet when you said that.

I think it depends on which vaccines are deemed mandatory. Some are very much more effective than others. And the risks associated with the vaccine / non vaccine can vary by ages etc
Also i would then want to know the carrot has been extensively used. Education, discussion, addressing fears counteracting misinformation
But within these important contexts I would then support compulsory programmes/ exclusions

I'm not anti vacc (ex cabin crew and have had more than I can count). My ds1 is fully vaccinated and so is my husband. Ds2 isn't. He has severe autism and will need a general anaesthetic to get caught up.

We have had issues getting travel insurance. There is a clause in the majority of policies that states you are not covered if you haven't had all nhs recommended vaccines or vaccines that have been offered by the nhs inc covid. We found one insurer that would insure providing the paediatrician wrote a letter saying he was exempt due to his autism and severe learning disability.

I've found most people aren't aware of the clause when discussing it irl. In theory an insurance company could use it to void a claim as breaking the contract.

Thanks for this, I had no idea about this and it needs to be more widely publicised.

I imagine you imagine a lot of things.

Vaccination rates go up splendidly when there’s an outbreak. Anti-vaxxers are down the jab clinic with their kids faster than you can say “tin foil hat”.

What I propose would do the same without the misery of the outbreaks.

Encephalitis/ encephalopathy is listed as a (rare) side effect of many vaccines. The likelihood is about one in a million (mmr for example but is a listed side effect in many vaccines) but if you or your child is that one....... vaccines can cause serious damage to some people which is why there is a vaccine damage compensation scheme in the uk. It happens rarely and is difficult to prove but it does happen.

I'm not anti vacc but just pointing out that it does happen in rare circumstances and is a listed side effect on many vaccines.

No wrong and right isn’t the same as I am superior

but there does seem to be a correlation between a superior attitude , being wrong and the accusing others of being superior. Interesting to watch

it’s like I have to get the accusation of superiority out quickly to try and shut the people up who I disagree with because there is no way I can argue my case from logic so I have to resort to emotion

Do you? Just the things you've been called out for? Or the things I agree with you on as well?

Yes, surprising on a MN vacc thread. Usually the anti-vaxxers have many, many friends with vaccine damaged children. Despite the impossibility of this.

Perhaps the anti-vaxxers are taking a new line, based only on ‘high-minded’ principles of autonomy and freedom.

I’m not anti vax. My dc are vaccinated.
I don’t think children should be denied an education because parents decided not to vax them.
They made a choice that they felt was right, whatever their reasons.
You may as well say people who’ve never paid tax shouldn’t be able to access education for their dc unless they have a certified reason.

They wouldnt be denied an education. They would be denied a state education provided for by the tax payer who has a say in who their children mix with and what risks are present and as other posters have said, generally what is the right thing to do.

Well it has actually ... all health care professionals had to have covid jabs or they could not carry on practicing or training.

Mandatory vaccination doesn't limit access to childcare and schools for vulnerable children. If they can't be vaccinated, they'll have a medical exception and will be protected by the rest of school mates who have been vaccinated.

It's how vaccination works. Protect the majority so the minority that can't be vaccinated also get the benefit.

Eh?
I'm talking about certain conditions where actual medical professionals recommend later, or no, vaccination.

It's a much more common outcome of catching measles.

Some childminders don’t accept un vaccinated children.
mine doesn’t for example.

Also the law in Italy (you can’t go to state pre-school or school if not vaccinated).

Vaccinations should be mandatory unless a doctor have identified a specific medical reason why someone should not be given a particular vaccine.

This. Also, it's not a good idea to push those children away from settings where people can keep an eye on them. I am not saying that all people who don't vaccinate are neglectful, that is patently not true (they may only refuse certain vaccinations anyway) and most look after their children very well, but there will be exceptions.

I don't know why people worry about other people so much. It's like people not wearing helmets on bikes (why does that affect you) and not going for smear tests (again, how does that possibly affect you)?

At population level vaccination is clearly the best option - it is expensive and inconvenient to deal with illness. At individual level, it's not always quite so clearcut - the existence of vaccine damage legislation is prima facie evidence that things can go wrong - such as the people who received the AZ COVID vaccine and had very serious side effects.