Why have so many kids if you're struggling so much already?

[AmusedTaupePlayer]

Not sure where to post this, but I know someone who I'm really trying to understand. She has autism and a number of serious mental health diagnoses. She's estranged from her abusive family, can't work due to disability, and her relationship with the kids' father has ended.
She now has four children, at least one of whom is also disabled (epilepsy), and I just can’t wrap my head around it. Raising even one child is hard enough, let alone four, and with so many challenges already stacked against you — why bring children into that?
I'm not judging her as a person — I think she’s doing her best — but I keep wondering whether it's fair on the kids when you know you can’t offer stability or support, especially if you’re also navigating trauma yourself.
Is it naive of me to think people should try to get themselves into a stable place before bringing children into the mix? Am I missing something? Genuinely open to different views.

Frankly people should be less selfish. Having a child is a privilege not a right. Love is absolutely not enough.

This is true. Poor woman.

Report her to social services

Mine told me, after my third I should be sterilised as contraception didn't work, hence third child, and a fourth pregnancy could kill me.

Also, to add to a previous post: I know a woman. She and her DH have 8 kids, and they live in social housing. She is cheerful, creative, active in the community. All you would know about her husband from brief acquaintance is that he is "grumpy, ha ha, and he's tight too, that's my Brian!" And you would say to yourself "They're crazy, I do not understand why they have so many kids, she must be addicted to having babies, ha ha!"

Yet....as I've got to know her further, I have learnt the following:
She was a teenager when they met, and her DH is 14 years older.
She got pregnant very, very quickly after they met.
She can't use hormonal contraception.
After a couple of her DC being diagnosed she now suspects she's autistic herself, and is certainly very naive about some things and has a tendency not to spot red flags in people.

And now I'm asking myself....silly woman popping kids out because she "just wants baybees "? Or something a bit darker?

You don't think that someone who has a history of abuse and familial estrangement might potentially have a need to build emotional connection? You think that it's stereotyping to acknowledge that humans are wired for connection and that creating your own family is a means to do that in a way that gives the individual some autonomy? Okay...

It's a very interesting debate! However it's moot because if we want to live in a free society where we make choices about our lives and our bodies then we have to accept everyone else gets the same rights. The alternative reality would be too awful to imagine. This was tried, with the eugenics movement and forced sterilisation in the 1920s. We look back on that with horror now but I'm sure it started off with good intentions. I just googled it, this is from Wikipedia:

In 1911, while he was serving as Home Secretary, Winston Churchill favored the sterilization of feeble-minded persons.

The opposition from the Catholic church stopped the bill. But this happened in many countries around the world. Maybe still is? I admit I don't know much about it.

There really is nothing gained by complaining about other people's decisions. What would really make a difference is more support for the children financially and otherwise who are left vulnerable by their parents poor decisions.

I am the oldest from a family with a lot of siblings & very unstable/unreliable parents & it's a nightmare, quite often in these families the oldest children are doing a lot of the work. I don't think it's unreasonable to say to a person 'you are not coping, please, please stop having more baby's & put your time & effort into the family you have'.

Nope not all not at all. Some will, some won't. Some will want it anyway before the trauma, some will continue to want it after. Some will not want it before the trauma nor after. For some the trauma will change their opinion.

So humans are wired for connection but those who want connection after having trauma as doing it because of the trauma? Make it make sense! If humans are wired for connection then surely they want it before trauma anyway, no?

Nope I think it is stereotyping to assume that the reason some people want connection after trauma is because of trauma and not because we are wired for it.

To say that those who want connection after trauma is not due to wiring but their trauma but had they not had trauma it would be due to wiring doesn't make sense.

Which is what they did to females labelled mental with wandering womb (personality disorder) and black women labelled mental with black man's disorder (schizophrenia) in the not so distant past.

Seems not much has changed!

Where did anyone say that everyone who's had trauma will or won't want something? For there to be a correlation doesn't require for everyone to be the same. Trauma is linked by research, not by my opinion, to maladaptive coping strategies and to insecure attachment styles. I'm sorry you think differently but unless you have evidence to support that (which I'd genuinely love to see; trauma and attachment were the mainstay of my Masters qualification and I have a keen interest in the area), then I think you're incorrectly drawing that conclusion

I want to say I'm surprised by that Churchill thing. It's new news to me but I can't bring myself (sadly!) to be surprised. Dismayed, yes. Thanks for the info!

As somebody with a disabled brother, I think this is a really shitty thing to do.

Lots of people on here have.

So if someone has had trauma their brain isn't wired to want connection, them seeking connection is them being unstable and will cause trauma to their offspring.

Someone without trauma has their brain wired to want connection, them seeking connection is them being stable and will not cause trauma to their offspring.

So someone seeking connection who has not had trauma is a coping strategy for life and can cause issues for their offspring?

Attachment styles! ha! So you believe people have a static attachment style? Studies show attachment styles change throughout our lives. They are fluid and change daily and weekly. If someone had a secure attachment as a child doesn't mean they will in adulthood and visa versa. There is no such thing as attachment disorder and yes I have studied them - Bowlby etc.

You've done a lot of mental gymnastics to twist what was said to suit your narrative. Enjoy

How is connecting with others not a coping strategy for life? Meaning that those without trauma are seeking connection to cope with life.

You said they are wired to do so and this is a need. So they are filling a void. That void being that if they had no one to connect with they seek out that connection to fill that void?

No?

That is EXACTLY it. This person's oldest and youngest have a massive age gap aswell. She just felt like they loved her the way no one else ever has. She is also now quite bad with her grandchildren and often tells me she wishes her DIL's and DD would let her have them 24 7.

I agree op. I saw a newspaper article the other day of a mother complaining about lack of social housing (which I agree with). There was a photo of her toddler child holding up a placard (7 years ago) demonstrating for more local housing then commented ‘now Bobby has 3 younger siblings’. Still living in reportedly cramped and unsuitable private rented property. Why have more children under those circumstances?

"Why have more children under those circumstances?"

When housing is allocated based upon 'need', then it makes sense to increase your needs...

I often think these people expressing such horror at larger families or living with disability have little or no experience of either.

It's incredibly difficult for larger families to get adequate social housing. Think about it- how many SH properties do you know of with over 3 bedrooms? They're pretty rare.

Well yes you are correct we don't have experience of larger families for various reasons one of which is " well it would impact all aspects of our life" as opposed to " fuck it I will get more benefits"

You are correct in that no one can tell them what to do but we do have the ability to vote for a party which makes people take more responsibility for their lives and to deal with their money affairs to avoid paying more tax. Feel free to scroll on by .

A lot of ND women have hypermobility which can mean some medication doesn't work properly, like the contraceptive pill. Women who struggle with organisation may not remember to take their pill.

Then they should cut their cloth accordingly

very few people have 4 dc