Transgender 4 year old wanting to join girls only group

[Helpwithdivorce]

So I’ll preface this by saying im very much a live your life however you please as long as you’re not hurting anybody kind of person. However I run a group, which is just for girls aged 4-7.

I’ve had a request from a parent for their child to join. The child is 4 and the parent said they are transgender. Now here is my predicament, which may be rightly or wrongly.

Firstly I feel like this mother is just out to cause drama, there are other very similar mixed gender groups, there is no reason this child needs to join a group only for girls.

Secondly I simply do not believe that a 3/4 year old child knows that they are transgender. I feel this is being peddled by the mother, again feeding the drama.

What would you do? I really don’t want this mother in my group, but the group is ‘inclusive’ so I can’t say no you can’t join.
Currently I’ve just ignored the request.

Entitlement is the word.

Especially as it's not the same as asking a group to accept a difference. Because with the acceptance of the boy will come the mandatory gaslighting to children and parents that he's actually a girl.

Creative waiting list progression then, based on a combination of first come first served and age appropriate gaps due to attrition. It’s ok to give a space to a child ahead of another because you feel you need to balance older and younger aged children. However, this is going to hang over you for years if you do that, so I’d seek clarification for the theoretical possibility. What you need to know is to what extent the central body controls the admissions for individual branches, or whether they can vary their criteria. Really Girl Guides should have made it clear that they accept the high court ruling and leave it up to individual group organisers to devised whether their group is single sex or gender identity based.

My mind is blown that there really is a twattish mum out there endorsing this shit in her own 4 year old child. I can’t get my head round it.

Poor bloody kid, suffering due to its parent pushing stupid ideas on him.

ffs a 4 year old isnt t5rans they have no idea what it is

These people are beyond help.

So I would start by saying thank you for applying. I would indicate the very long waiting list and the child couldn’t be admitted now. I would then thank them for making you aware of their child being transgender and that you are seeking clarification on the legislation (which others have cited above) because it would seem from that that you are unable to admit but will have to check. Then contact Rainbows HO and ask.

Oof, tricky one love. I get where you’re coming from it does feel a bit like the mum's stirring the pot, doesn’t it? But bless, if the little one sees herself as a girl, maybe it’s worth a quiet chinwag with the mum before deciding. No harm in hearing her out. These things aren’t always black and white, are they? x

I’ve met two. They treat their child like designer handbags. It’s the ultimate woke brand identity badge.

She’s talking about Girlguiding. Rainbows, Brownies, Guides and Rangers are all part of the Girlguiding organisation. And yes, the guidance is currently the same for all units.

I would do this.

For my personal conscience I would not want to be involved in enabling in anyway this boy being encouraged to think he is a girl. However well meaning his Mother may be, she is imposing adult ideology on a child. He needs to be allowed to enjoy what he enjoys without adults imposing their own narratives on this. He needs to be allowed to grow up and discover if he is gay or straight or caring or likes crafts or rugby or army or whatever it is is he likes as an adult.

Poor boy. Letting him join a girls group is letting who this boy is being dictated by his Mother and her beliefs. I would have no part in this on principle. And as it turns out, by law too!

I don’t think there’s a huge amount of difference between boys and girls at that age. But if I was inclined to let a so-called trans girl (I mean really? Trans at 4 years old?) join a group for girls, I would NOT participate in the myth that the child is a girl. I wouldn’t want anyone to be reprimanded for calling the child he/him or for referring to him as a boy. The girls would be told that a boy is joining their group and that he is called Daisy (or whatever.) And the parents would be informed that this is the case, take it or leave it. It would be a very bad message for girls to learn at such a young age, that boys can be girls just by wearing sparkly stuff and calling themselves Daisy and that it’s ok to tell lies.

The Guides have let boys who say they are girls join for quite some time now. They also treat male volunteers who say they are women as though they were actually women.

My daughters go to guides. They don’t do anything particularly “girly”. The weather is warm so seem to spend lots of time in the woods practicing survival skills so building dens, climbing trees and toasting marshmallows.

I’d be really unimpressed if a boy was let in at any age tbh. I think our leaders would be quite resistant. The idea is to help enable our girls to be independent, resilient and supportive of one another.

personally I'd just let the child join the group

100% disagree with this, it's how all this "let men in women's spaces" started.

A group of women fought to get women's spaces back to being women only.
In this case you're within your rights to say no.... Be that person.

How many of the other parents that put their DD's in a girls only club have agreed to the boy joining?

See the guidance by the Equality Commission.
SEX MATTERS.
Other groups that provide a mixed sex alternative are available.
You are ALLOWED to discriminate if it is a stated single sex group.

You don't want abusive parents to deal with anyway. Of course they are out to cause drama. No 4 year old can be trans. Thats drama in itself.

Say no. Repeat the Equality Act guidance. And Repeat. And Repeat.

Let them squeal. Its not for you to resolve this.

I hadn't thought about it this way, but I think this is a really good approach to this sort of issue.

Let the girls have free rein to do boy things without the boys domineering the activity.

Exactly the same reasoning that we have a protected category of female sport

I think you can, but I understand it may feel like it's outside your scope to do so. I'd say you don't want to be in breach of the law or the EHRC guidelines, so until you get updated guidelines from Guiding that include that ruling, you're keeping any such applications on the waiting list.

I don't understand why this boy should be allowed to join a girls-only group. Either the group is single sex (meaning biological sex) and therefore does not accept any boys, or it's 'inclusive' and accepts any boy or girl who wants to join. Saying that a group is single sex and then allowing only certain groups of boys to join is not an acceptable option.

My DD will be joining rainbows soon, her 7 and nearly 6 year old brothers would love to join her as she would be allowed to join them at squirrels/beavers, but I've explained that it's only for girls. Btw, I think girl only spaces are important and should be protected. If I then found out that another boy had been allowed to join rainbows I would be extremely pissed off. Why should he be allowed to join but not my sons?

This 4 year old should consider joining squirrels as they accept both sexes.

continue to ignore
i feel like they are baiting you and it could blow up from either side.

How would that even work at that age if the little boy joined? Would you have to refer to him as 'she/her' just on the mother's say-so?

I agree, but social services are probably as likely to report you to the police for a transphobic hate incident

This ... seems the best option to avoid drama

I’ve not quoted guides. All groups are run by girlguiding. I have to do what they tell me to do

Ffs at 4 years old I wanted to be a pony. No way does a 4 Yr old child even know what transgender is. This is fucking ridiculous. This is all on an attention seeking idiotic parent who probably has some crazy self indulgent insta page with their child all over it.