Taxes to rise to fund PIP

[Viviennemary]

I just read this, Don't agree with this at all. PIP needs to be reformed. But not by introducing this two tier system. Sick of Labour already. Might have know they would revert to type. With all the infighting and disagreement so nothing ever gets done except back peddling, increased taxes and prices rises.

But how are they completing the assessment in good faith if it's the total opposite to what the claimant told them and the evidence backs up the claimant?

An example - my parents were told when I was 2 I'd never legally drive. When I was 18, I spoke to my consultant who was still of the opinion I'd never have enough vision to pass the eyesight test. It's still that way and will always be.

In 2016, I was invited to transfer from DLA to pip. I had my assessment. I was asked if I drive and I said no and that I was registered partially sighted. I was told by the person who assessed me who has no access to the reports that my consultants do, that there's no reason why I can't drive and I've chosen not to. That was before she did an eye test which backed up my claim that medically I can't drive

No one apart from the assessor has ever told me I'll be fine to drive

I wouldn’t disagree because while things are ‘equalising’ the government is still saving money.

Where did I say they couldn't qualify for the higher rate?

It is true however I'm referring more specially to the system in Scotland which I think has a slightly different process, albeit very similar to the rest of the UK system. I've worked for them myself however only lasted around 4 months. They're changing the current disability benefits to something I think is called adult disability payment (I think but could be wrong on the exact name of it).

I obviously can't comment on one or two pieces of anecdotal information of an assessment that I've never clapped eyes on.

You only need to look on the various FB groups to find similar. I know so many people who've had things twisted. I remember someone having a phone assessment. They have problems walking and live in a bungalow. It was written on their form that they live in a house and manage the stairs

This is the misconception of the general public who have no experience of the system. Assessors are recruited from NHS. They are mainly nurses, physios, OT’s and paramedics - note the absence of actual doctors. They mostly don’t have any speciality in disability and receive a couple of weeks training as ‘disability analysts’ and are let loose on claimants. They can contradict claimants medical evidence, including specialist reports and the opinions of other HCP’s far above their own pay grade. At the end of the day assessors reports will always take precedence unless the decision maker challenges it - which is unlikely because the decision makers don’t have medical training.

As an outreach worker for the disabled I’ve seen some truly awful decisions based on very dodgy assessors reports which have been thrown out at appeal. DWP have also been criticised for wasting tax payers money taking claimants to tribunal when they know they won’t win. The notion that disabled claimants get fair assessments and appropriate awards is so far removed from the truth I don’t know where to start - as is the notion that someone can breeze into an assessment with no medical evidence and blag their way into an enhanced award. It doesn’t happen.

Again, anecdotal. There could be a million accounts of this, unless it's an assessment that I have personal experience of, I obviously can't comment on whether it's accurate ir been completed in good faith or not.

Yep.

Some of the things I've seen have made my jaw drop. Babies not getting DLA because they are on oxygen and/or are tube fed but apparently don't have any more care needs than other babies their age, a child denied HRM despite only having 1 foot and so on and so on.

I feel lucky that my son got HRC and HRM right away but if someone is entitled to it, that's how it should be. It shouldn't be such a fight for some people and it is.

If we want people who can't work to live well, how can we do it more cheaply? We can't put people in dormitories and feed and clothe them.like orphans. We can't send them to live in a different country where costs might be cheaper and the weather better.

Assess them properly and stop assessing people like me who aren't going to get better

Sure would be good to have that magic money tree

Why does it need to be a doctor though? Although there are doctors among the range of assessors. The HCPs mentioned are more than capable of carrying out assessments and making decisions however the issue is that they don't match the correct HCP for each assessment. For example, they'll randomly assign an assessor to a claim not taking into account their area of specialty. They'll match a physio to a mental health claim and a mental health nurse to a claim for a physical condition. I do think that if they had a system where HCP's assessed within their own specialty, along with being allow to rely more on medical evidence provided by the person's own consultant or specialist nurse then the assessment process would work much better.

This happened to me. I was sitting in on a clients’ home assessment. Ground floor flat- everything level access. The client had full length callipers on both legs and used a wheelchair. The assessment report stated that she lived in a house and managed the stairs with no problem, and could sit or stand at a kitchen counter with no difficulty to prepare and cook food. In reality the client couldn’t stand unaided and then only for a couple of minutes, and couldn’t sit at a kitchen counter because of the callipers.

On another face to face assessment the client was a double above knee amputee and the assessor actually asked why it wasn’t feasible for her to sit on the floor of the shower so that she didn’t need assistance. On one memorable occasion the assessor was asking the client repeatedly to rotate the ankle on an artificial limb even though they’d been told several times it wasn’t possible. It’s utter nonsense and an insult to the very vulnerable people we’re supposed to be supporting.

Assessors in the main don’t have a speciality and they receive minimal training. And they are free to contradict medical evidence provided by consultants, far above the assessors’ level of competence. The DWP themselves have admitted that for some disabilities such as neurological or neural tube congenital disabilities a doctor should be carrying out the assessment. In reality it doesn’t happen.

You mean the same magic money tree that in my personal experience pays up to £1700 a month in child benefit and UC childcare fees - two and half times the amount paid to the disabled people we’re discussing here ?

Again, you are not comparing like with like. In other countries you can deduct all your costs related to your job before you are taxed. Imagine deducting your daily £15 train fare for your 20min journey.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

The whole benefits system needs to be drastically scaled back to what it was originally supposed to be - a temporary safety net. It has been allowed to grow and grow into a crazy out of control monster.

It should definitely happen, especially with some complex cases.

My son was under 10+ specialities at one point. I joked to the social workers helping me fill in the DLA form that the poor assessor will take one look at my son's form and need a good lie down afterwards.

Not going to happen. Once you start giving things out it’s very difficult to claw them back, as successive governments are discovering.

Of course they have specialties. A learning disability nurse has completed a 3/4 year degree specifically in LD nursing and worked in the same specialty for a period of time. As would a mental health nurse. Doctors don't have areas of specialty until they are higher up the ranks and at that point, they're not going to give up their clinical careers that they've worked on for 10+ years to become an assessor.

And yes, you're right, they are free to contradict a specialists report (which i don't agree with) however that's why I said that they should have the ability to rely more on specialists reports (as we were talking about what the problem was and this was one of the areas that I identified)

Completely agree - government after government have handed out an ever increasing number of sweeties to get people to vote for them. It needs a fundamental shift. Lots of people who "can't work", suddenly would if the handouts disappeared.

I do work, and have done for decades.

and those who genuinely can't work who would likely be caught in the crossfire?