Taxes to rise to fund PIP

[Viviennemary]

I just read this, Don't agree with this at all. PIP needs to be reformed. But not by introducing this two tier system. Sick of Labour already. Might have know they would revert to type. With all the infighting and disagreement so nothing ever gets done except back peddling, increased taxes and prices rises.

Thank you for your response.
Bloody hell, how can anyone grudge this extra help to people in so much need🤔

From what was said at the last party conference they’re planning to scrap all disability support and put the disabled back into the institutions of 60 years ago. Not joking. Disabled people voting Reform is akin to the proverbial turkeys voting for Christmas.

Didn't shop people voting Brexit

I don't think I'd be able to pull it off but my cousin who is on PIP for depression and anxiety along with agoraphobia has just returned from a holiday to New York. Agoraphobia. I don't think it's that hard to understand that quite a few folk are fleecing the system.

maybe because it’s my friends & family that have the Motobility cars and they aren’t the children's cars

my niece who is 27 has a Motobility car and so does my sister in law
The cars are for them and paid for using their Motobility allowance : if they take the kids out in them
thats not really the point it’s their allowance that pays for it

Families and friends do actually chat to each other
and I have no issues with them having it either

That's very helpful thanks

I think this thread has run its course for me now we are getting into tall tales abput disabled people.

All I will say is it is a shame Labour hasn't learned from the mistakes of the Tories.

Welfare reform savings 'less than expected', says IFS - BBC News share.google/iwQbLDPz9jo4fxo0U

Well considering they hate disabled people, nothing good

Oh here we go. I have a pension, well two actually, a state one and an employment one one I contributed to for well over 45 years of continuous work. I pay income tax on my pensions. I also pay VAT, petrol tax, council tax, road fund tax and probably a couple more sneaky ones as well. I don’t mind paying tax, I am comfortable financially , I own the house I live in ( but no second home). I don’t know if I will get the winter fuel allowance because they haven’t announced the clawbacks, but probably not, managed to survive last year anyway.

I really do resent the idea that all pensioners are greedy and grasping, in my experience we aren’t, and my personal opinion is that people who make snippy little remarks like “yes, pensioners won’t like it” are revealing more about their own psyche and mindset than perhaps they realise.

I would be happy to pay a levy if it went towards funding future social care , I would also be happy to pay a levy to see my gp, but that is personal and I realise they are not possible for everyone . I believe we do need to look at how some of the things we take for granted are funded, though unfortunately no government is going to risk dismantling the broken bits and rebuilding them to a higher standard.

And to get it off my chest : Yes, we were the first beneficiaries of the welfare state, that clinic orange juice built up our immunity (and rotted our teeth), we also benefitted from full student grants, though funnily enough not many of us took advantage of that and most women for example, especially working class women, went straight into often low paid work after school, with no pension rights, no maternity rights and no employment rights ( we had to fight for those - you can thank us later) . Housing costs were lower, though mortgage rates had a sting in the tail, (not good news for single women who still had to have a male guarantor for low cost loans for fridges let alone mortgages) , but then our wages, our horizons and our expectations were lower too, holidays, new cars, designer clothing, good haircuts, meals out in nice restaurants, a bottle of decent wine, were things that only gradually became part of normal life for many of us.

PS great news that the government is finally recognising that the WASPIE women have been cheated out of their pensions, many will get some, though not all, of the money they are ENTITLED to.

Exactly this. I live on a council estate where most houses are privately owned. There is a council house down from us with a whole 3 generations of multiple feckless parenting and living off the state. They vote reform "cos of immigrants". On the day after the brexit vote one of their kids who was 10 at the time came running into school shouting "yeah we left the EU". Not being funny but Farage will be no friend of theirs. No idea why people are too stupid to see it. I'd do better under reform. Pay less taxes but I wouldn't be stupid enough to vote for them.

You’re missing the point. The fact that motability purchases account for 20% of the market, is because the disabled person never owns the car. Vehicles are leased for three or five years, depending on the extent of adaptations required to drive or access the vehicle. So long term customers are being provided with new cars every three years as well as new recipients joining the scheme. Vehicles are sold on to various sources, including fleet vehicles. Motability customers who wish to purchase their vehicles at the end of the lease are also given the opportunity to do so.

I’m a higher rate tax payer, and my mum is on PIP and pension credit.

She lives in her house owned outright in London, and is able to pay all her bills and still save thousands each year, which she then gives away to others.

I’m happy she is financially secure because she is my mum but if this scenario is being replicated up and down the country then many people are sitting very pretty indeed.

You sound very guliable if you believe what your cousin is telling you.

From my post:

Motobility cars are not paid for by the tax payer. PIP is paid for by the tax payer

The whole point of the allowance is that people can use it according to their major needs. Transport is a major need for people with significant physical disabilities. Motability keeps car costs down by buying fleets at huge scale so if you insist that the tax payer is paying for the cars they are getting good value for money.

Just piling in on this. So, with two tier system, my sister, who has the same conditon as me and has had PIP for years is guaranteed to continue to receive it. But if my symptoms get worse I probably won't until I'm in a wheelchair. Despite the fact I've always paid taxes for years and she hasn't worked for 30 years....

I'm all in favour of reform of the system but this doesn't seem fair at all.

I really do resent the idea that all pensioners are greedy and grasping, in my experience we aren’t, and my personal opinion is that people who make snippy little remarks like “yes, pensioners won’t like it” are revealing more about their own psyche and mindset than perhaps they realise.

Or they just have a firm grip on reality. I find the refusal to acknowledge certain things bizarre.

It's not fair

@nomas of course it is. One of my older relatives gets AA, now legitimately they qualify. Do they need it? House here worth 1.5m, house abroad 500k. I'm not sure...

@alexalisten that's what ridiculous about it.

Absolutely, my dad long dead now was moved onto sickness benefits in the 90s before his retirement age because damaged hips meant he could barely walk as a result of national service injuries.

My brother is now on benefits including the sickness element because he's got the same crippling arthritis after 4 decades of bricklaying on insecure pay and can barely get to the shops without having to sit down for half an hour when he gets there to recover. A formally fit and strong man that work and disease has disabled.

These are what we all signed up to pay for along with the many difficult lives posters here have mentioned.

Do you have one of the basic models? I know at the bottom end this is true but I have colleagues who do a lot of driving hours and need something a bit higher end who have paid hefty deposits.

The insurance has fluctuated I think over the years. I remember one friend deciding against a motability car because she simply couldn’t get insurance as a disabled driver with an adapted car but that was some years ago and I know the system has changed a few times. I know others who do have it covered as part of the current package so that may be just me out of date.

@viques you forgot the War! Didn't you fight for our freedom! 🙄

I'm not missing the point.

The source of a second hand car in the second hand car market doesn't increase the number of people buying a second hand car.

So you don’t think disabled people should go on holiday ? If she has found a way to manage that agoraphobia what business is it of yours ? And PIP would not be awarded on the basis of Agoraphobia alone - it would be considered as part of wider MH problem, which you may or may not be aware of, depending on whether you live with her 24/7, have access and understanding of her medical records, and are privy to all the details of her benefit claim.

I think in cases like this the absolute worse thing society could do to 'help' people like this, who seem perfectly able to play video games all night (which can actually be really skillful) is give them money to enable this. This isn't even about the money it costs the taxpayer. Its about the terrible life it has enabled (although I'm sure they are happy playing games all night). I come from a place with loads of people who have go down this life path, seen it first hand. If this was one of my kids I would beg DWP not to give them any money.

I think the best thing gov could to to get young people off benefits and into work is make work pay, because at the moment it just doesn't and we incentives poor mental health. Imagine you come from a sink estate in a deprived part of the country (like me). You look around and see your options. You can work in a boring hard job with no prospects (and there is absolutely nothing wrong with these jobs or the people who do them) and NEVER earn enough for your own home or anything more than a life of poverty. This future would fill anyone with depression and anxiety. Now if you do suffer depression you can have just as much, or more money as the boring hard full time job would get you and you have a better chance of a council place. Plus you have all that free time so you can play video games all night with no worries about getting up in the morning. Not working is a rational choice.

Life never used to be like that, people on minimum wage jobs could get ahead in life and weren't looked down on the way they are now. One change I would make is a massive council house building program giving people in work priority. People have to benefit some way from doing the absolutely essential boring rubbish low paid work and at the moment they just don't.