Thread 26 Starmer: Cats, Rebels and Orange Chaos

[DuncinToffee]

Previous thread https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5349605-thread-25-starmer-cheers-for-a-falling-out-among-thieves?page=40&reply=145224605

I think by illegally he means washing up on a beach rather than entering via a port with customs.

Well yes. I know what he means. It’s not illegal though, and I’d rather a Human Rights lawyer and leader of a country could be honest about that.

Th closest we can get to safe routes I think

I agree that they should use irregular

Macron is directly blaming Brexit for the small boat crossings.

He isn't wrong...

No he’s not!

This looks rather clever if it only operates on family connections. How it works is key. But it looks like if that is the criteria, then actually it would deter a lot of asylum seekers. I’m not sure how lawful it is.

But it poses a huge question. as individuals transit through the Schengen area, where Dublin still applies, that means Dublin will operate to transit asylum claimants to the first claim point. That means France will in theory stop having encampments in Northern France, and will be sending asylum seekers to other EU countries using Dublin. I assume that anyone who did have a family connection to the UK could make their claim as soon as they entered France.

The EU may accept it because the the UK would be taking a percentage of asylum seekers through its borders.

It is clever. But it means a lot of draconian enforcement on asylum seekers who failed in the UK. That’s not going to be cheap.

It’s a major cause!

Don't tell the Johnson and Farage fans

Where I am with 100% with President Macron is that more should be done to stop the 'pull' factors, especially the ease to find unofficial jobs. Some could be clamped down fairly easily, the one that comes to mind are moped delivery drivers.

Being allowed to work whilst the claim is being processed would be an easy solution.

Absolutely. Whoever thought not allowing those people to work was a good idea needs their head testing.

AHH, I know people who complain about illegal migrants but go out of their way to get their car washed at cash in hand places etc. And then are complaining about how the Eastern Europeans.staffing it are "probably here illegally". But then why go to that carwash?
Doing a better job at addressing the grey economy is something achievable -other countries do it. And would protect more people from modern slavery/exploitation as well. But it's not something that happened in a vacuum. Good British born and bred people participate in it too on lots of ways.. actually if the Tommy Robinson's of this world gave up the Columbian marching powder criminal gangs would see their profits take a hit!

It’s worth doing something about the black economy. We need tax, properly run businesses not money laundering outfits. It’s everywhere where I live. Blatant. Some migration is driving very nasty crime like prostitution and drugs. Both with serious violence attached. The black economy is just the only bit I actually see, thank god

Why have safe routes when you can instead create a system where the only route in requires a high degree of physical fitness and the willingness to risk life and limb? (And then keep asking why it's mostly healthy young men who are completing this physical challenge). That sells much more papers.

Yes! The lost tax is another part. And illegal cigarettes/vapes can have health dangers. You are never going to get to a level of 0 crime. But there is space for a lot of improvement there.
If they do start to have an impact though crime stats might go up in some areas purely because more crimes are being recorded as people actually get arrested. And more news articles about convictions etc. So i. The short term thats more fodder for people to point to.

The only thing I disagree with is that illegal migration is driving the drugs trade. Its more like demand for drugs is helping to fund illegal gangs and encourage migration. But that's not a reason not to go after the gangs. I just hate the hypocrisy of people who complain about crime but also do cocaine regularly.

Always fun to see these 'stop immigration' and 'I want to leave the UK' threads side by side.

Maybe Rwanda could be a suggestion

There are some lunatics on MN atm

As always - cui bono ? There are a lot of very rich people in the UK who rely on dodgy labour.

There are a lot of very rich people in the UK who rely on drugs being illegal.

Luckily rich people make the laws.

Yes. And some right goady fuckers.

You can feel the rage at this asylum deal. Again, massive sour grapes. This was something that was known to be lawful and would work - instead the Tories pursued Rwanda which was unlikely to do either but was highly performative and expensive. The flight of fancy of Braverman.

Sunak was a dire PM; he knew she was terrible, he knew she was absolutely hopeless, but he didn’t sack her, kept her on, let her do her dog whistle two tier stuff, and her expensive Rwanda scheme.

I am not a fan of Jenrick but really, that he got outpaced by Braverman tells you a lot about the Tory Party. He was smarter than her, he knew it would work and yet…. Nothing

Yep, with France as a co-signatory of the ECHR that neuters a lot (but not all) legal challenges. Less expensive that Rwanda but less sexy and performative for R/Wers.
I dont suppose we were ever able to get that money back.

I thought Rwanda started as a Patel policy plop in the height of Johnson's troubles though along with putting Border Force/Navy on jet skis - i dont think it was ever intended to work in reality.

Sunak had to keep Braverman on to keep the big frothers on board. Except it didnt really work out that way.

I thought Rwanda started as a Patel policy plop in the height of Johnson's troubles though along with putting Border Force/Navy on jet skis - i dont think it was ever intended to work in reality.

Yes.

'Save big dog'

Ireland isn't in the Schengen area. It still has a common agreement area with the UK.

Philp banging on about the deal being ‘1 in 17’ migrants and therefore not a deterrent.
Umm…first, it’s a pilot which can be expanded and second Rwanda was a fuck ton less than that.