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Thread 26 Starmer: Cats, Rebels and Orange Chaos

992 replies

DuncinToffee · 24/06/2025 17:06

Previous thread https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5349605-thread-25-starmer-cheers-for-a-falling-out-among-thieves?page=40&reply=145224605

OP posts:
Thread gallery
60
bombastix · 01/07/2025 20:45

Also, Reform voted for getting rid of the bill altogether. That should focus this omnishambles

BIossomtoes · 01/07/2025 20:47

bombastix · 01/07/2025 20:45

Also, Reform voted for getting rid of the bill altogether. That should focus this omnishambles

Was that option put to the vote?

DuncinToffee · 01/07/2025 20:47

Well, I'd rather see them listening to backbenchers and offer concessions than just mindlessly continue.

Ofcourse they should have done that before it got this far.

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DuncinToffee · 01/07/2025 20:48

Reform can stfu

OP posts:
MsJinks · 01/07/2025 20:49

I heard on R4 PM today that it is being said Kendal wanted to do a full, proper review, but Reeves pushed for fast cashback - not an official briefing.
It’s a shame it all went so badly - maybe a fuller review would have had more support but left and right are always going to object to welfare changes. Think it should have waited and been a proper review.
However, it probably has distracted from the other thing I heard which was that boat crossings are up 48% on Jan to Jun last year - it was also pointed out it’s a small number of overall immigration for once. Guess weather definitely helped as well but I suppose it will be picked up as another fail.
Whatever could be better, isn’t the ideal hopes right now, folk have super short memories of the previous many years of awful that would have really continued to trash the country and those in it.

SerendipityJane · 01/07/2025 20:57

I heard on R4 PM today that it is being said Kendal wanted to do a full, proper review,

The danger of a full review is it might suggest upping benefits ...

bombastix · 01/07/2025 21:01

BIossomtoes · 01/07/2025 20:47

Was that option put to the vote?

This was the Maskell amendment;

Alliance: 1
DUP: 4
Greens: 4
Independents: 10
Labour: 42
Lib Dems: 70
Plaid Cymru: 4
Reform UK: 4
SNP: 9
TUV: 1
UUP: 1

Bad. Whoever was in charge of this bill and its concession strategy, they failed totally. I would love to know who was responsible. Maximum incompetence

PickAChew · 01/07/2025 21:12

North East Labour MPs very prominent among the rebels 💪

PandoraSocks · 01/07/2025 21:12

The whole thing was an embarrassing catastrophe.

PandoraSocks · 01/07/2025 21:17

DuncinToffee · 01/07/2025 20:47

Well, I'd rather see them listening to backbenchers and offer concessions than just mindlessly continue.

Ofcourse they should have done that before it got this far.

The concessions aren't really worth the paper they are written on, though.

The Government could potentially change PIP without Parliamentary debate or a vote.

PandoraSocks · 01/07/2025 21:31

PandoraSocks · 01/07/2025 21:17

The concessions aren't really worth the paper they are written on, though.

The Government could potentially change PIP without Parliamentary debate or a vote.

Edited

Actually I have got that wrong. They could introduce changes via secondary legislation which would be debated and voted upon, but could not be amended by Parliament.

I think!

PandoraSocks · 01/07/2025 21:38

.

Thread 26 Starmer: Cats, Rebels and Orange Chaos
DuncinToffee · 01/07/2025 21:44

Helen Walker, chief executive of Carers UK welcomed the concessions regarding PIP.

Unpaid carers will be hugely relieved that the Government has recognised the harmful impact the proposed changes to PIP could have on whole families.
Legislating for a system that would be under review would have been entirely in the wrong order.

These proposals have caused untold stress and worry for many thousands of carers. It’s the right decision to ensure that the Timms review of PIP is concluded and that the implications for unpaid carers are known before the Government takes any further steps.

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DuncinToffee · 01/07/2025 21:52

I am not minimising your feelings @PandoraSocks Flowers

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PandoraSocks · 01/07/2025 22:29

DuncinToffee · 01/07/2025 21:52

I am not minimising your feelings @PandoraSocks Flowers

I know that!
I am just so bitterly disappointed with Labour and angry at the tirade of hate that has been unleashed towards disabled people

The next disability related issue for Labour will be their plan to scrap contribution based ESA. I think that will have to be via a bill (but not certain), so we could see more chaos!

Deafnotdumb · 01/07/2025 22:43

The nation's finances are fucked because:
A) Covid
B) Brexit
C) We're all getting older, which means;
D) More people relying on the NHS and social security system. The 70 -74 year old cohort are growing and they are the biggest hospital users.

I don't have any short, easy or quick solutions. This dates back to the Blair/Brown years and it will take just as long to unravel.

placemats · 01/07/2025 23:31

The biggest hospital users are pregnant women and babies.

I applaud the concessions. Well done to all those Labour MPs who held out - great negotiation for a good result.

LlynTegid · 02/07/2025 07:24

itsgettingweird · 01/07/2025 18:52

Our criminal justice system isnt fit for purpose. Imo it doesn’t serve the “justice” part.

over a year ago a neighbours Bail smashed my car window. Da wheelchair was in the boot and unusable for 2 days as we couldn’t get it out and so we couldn’t use alternative public transport.

I had to pay £115 excess for the windscreen to be fixed and lost £50 in work. That’s just the actual coats incurred.

the “sentence”? £100 compensation. Which he was ordered to pay 8 months after the event, started to pay 3 months after that and is allowed to pay back at …… £3.24 a month.

I had to fill in 4 forms and got called 4 times about the case of which I spent about 2 hours sorting paper work for conviction.

Where the deterrent in that? Or the justice. Or even compensation to me? Or even Ds?

I’ve lost count of the number of people who have said “that’s why you have insurance”. Well yes I do. But I was exhorted to find £150 to make one shortfall that day. He’s got 3 years to find £100 of that.

There’s nothing about the system to make the criminal think twice about repeating the crime as the victim came off worse financially.

I’ve said if I was a victim again if a crime like that I’d refuse to make the statements etc as it’s a waste of my time on top of sorting out fixing the problems I’ve occurred as a victim.

Serendipity is correct where she said unthread we need to decide why we have the criminal justice system in the first place.

Agree it is no justice. Denying that person any chance of going abroad until he or she paid off the £100, and I bet it would be paid very quickly.

Alexandra2001 · 02/07/2025 07:37

Deafnotdumb · 01/07/2025 22:43

The nation's finances are fucked because:
A) Covid
B) Brexit
C) We're all getting older, which means;
D) More people relying on the NHS and social security system. The 70 -74 year old cohort are growing and they are the biggest hospital users.

I don't have any short, easy or quick solutions. This dates back to the Blair/Brown years and it will take just as long to unravel.

Austerity is the root cause - we have hollowed out services, but which still cost a lot to run, slashed real terms wage rises, introduced an apathy to the UK where so many just do the min they can get away with and string out what they do, so our productivity has declined, unique among European countries.

The billions spent repairing our roads? mostly wasted, shovels of tarmac patched in, workers who don't give a shit.. rinse repeat, even the tarmac used when they do a proper repair is of poor quality... cost cutting!

Look at Govt borrowing between 2010 and 2020? debt to GDP shot up - made even worse by Covid, it was 68% in 2010, 85% in 2020, 100% in 2024.

Not quite sure why you re blaming Blair/Brown??? This country would be a very much better place had Brown won in 2010.

bombastix · 02/07/2025 08:45

Well it’s taxes up for Autumn, and I guess asset or wealth tax.

DuncinToffee · 02/07/2025 09:01

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/jul/02/england-regional-mayors-back-plan-national-active-travel-network

Twelve of England’s regional mayors back plan for ‘national active travel network’

Exclusive: Unprecedented move to focus initially on helping children to walk, cycle or scoot to school safely

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Notonthestairs · 02/07/2025 09:05

In an ideal world Labour will look back at ominshambles of yesterday (haven't used omnishambles in a while - not thrilled that its back) and think again.

IMV they'll never cut enough benefits for Reform/Tory tastes. Doesnt matter that the Tory's reformed diddly when they were in power. Or that Reform play fantasy manifestos. Those voters are busy exchanging FB stories about feckless disabled people going to Lanzarote and driving Range Rovers.

If the Impact Assessment made no difference to those voters then nothing will.

So stop chasing them.

The good news is that there are plenty of centrist and left voters that might show more of an interest.

So try being competent. If you want to reform, follow evidence, produce and draft legislation that actually reforms.
Not cost cutting dressed up as reform.
Because we know from experience under Austerity that those costs 'savings' will just pop up somewhere else - social care and the NHS.

Accept that basing budgets on the Tories fiscal rules isn't workable - the Tories are not a fecking blueprint for management.
If they were austerity wouldn't have become a lingering moral crusade, Brexit wouldn't have happened (so our GDP would have been a hell of a lot healthier) and they wouldnt have cut NI (twice).

The only credit I'll give Reeves is that she has protected capital investment. For all the wanging on about productivity we should know by now (Austerity again) that using capital pots for day to day spending means that we fall behind in infrastructure and equipment. Over the last decade money which should have been spent on investment has been used just to put a bucket under the hole in the roof rather than fixing the roof.

Sorry bit rambling - very short on sleep.

PandoraSocks · 02/07/2025 09:06

I don't, applaud any of it, I'm afraid @placemats.

The concessions are kicking the can down the road and leaving disabled people not knowing what is going to happen.

Even if the PIP changes now never happen, the rest of the bill means that future UC claimants (so those people with the very least) who are too disabled or sick to work will be worse off as will under 22 year olds.

The bill should have been dropped.

BIWI · 02/07/2025 09:51

What a mess the whole thing has become. I keep shouting (in my head, obviously, I’m not mad!) KIER, BE LABOUR!

I wonder if this is going to be his wake-up call?