Thread 26 Starmer: Cats, Rebels and Orange Chaos

[DuncinToffee]

Previous thread https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5349605-thread-25-starmer-cheers-for-a-falling-out-among-thieves?page=40&reply=145224605

Obviously removing the tag is also a criminal offence… but the point is that you could put a chip in someone and track rhem
easily.

The implications for criminals are quite grim. You would quickly get whole areas where businesses or other services could refuse to serve you should they be allowed access to this system, much like facial recognition systems

Honestly none I suspect. The evidence is that they find other methods to offend which are just as depraved.

tbh I am of the school that there is not much to be done on paedophiles. They don’t change, so it’s about how you manage them, not imagining that they learn a lesson. They just get sneakier.

Labour MPs say welfare bill now 'complete mess', and restate calls for it to be withdrawn

This is a complete mess. The government is promising new changes, new concessions, 90 minutes before MPs vote.

None of this is written down. The Bill we are voting on tonight is unamended.

This is an unacceptable way of making laws. Just pull the Bill.

Nadia Whittome

Woah yea incompetent and desperate

It’s a complete mess and it’s looking as if there’s no leadership at all. Starmer really needs to get a grip and soon.

Rubbish. Why is there no plan for concessions? There should be. Utter rubbish

It is an absolute fucking shambles. The new concessions basically now introduce a three tier system for PIP.

I have never seen anything like it.

Steven Swinford, political editor of the Times, says Keir Starmer must have offered his latest compromise because he thought he would lose.

The government has effectively abandoned its flagship welfare reform - the overhaul of PIP disability benefits - entirely
After so much political pain, all the arguments that this was a moral and economic necessity, it’s gone. Just like that
The only conclusion you can reach is that whips believed that the government was going to lose the vote
Leaves Rachel Reeves with another £5billion to find in the Autumn budget, on top of the £1.5billion from the u-turn on winter fuel payments

Our criminal justice system isnt fit for purpose. Imo it doesn’t serve the “justice” part.

over a year ago a neighbours Bail smashed my car window. Da wheelchair was in the boot and unusable for 2 days as we couldn’t get it out and so we couldn’t use alternative public transport.

I had to pay £115 excess for the windscreen to be fixed and lost £50 in work. That’s just the actual coats incurred.

the “sentence”? £100 compensation. Which he was ordered to pay 8 months after the event, started to pay 3 months after that and is allowed to pay back at …… £3.24 a month.

I had to fill in 4 forms and got called 4 times about the case of which I spent about 2 hours sorting paper work for conviction.

Where the deterrent in that? Or the justice. Or even compensation to me? Or even Ds?

I’ve lost count of the number of people who have said “that’s why you have insurance”. Well yes I do. But I was exhorted to find £150 to make one shortfall that day. He’s got 3 years to find £100 of that.

There’s nothing about the system to make the criminal think twice about repeating the crime as the victim came off worse financially.

I’ve said if I was a victim again if a crime like that I’d refuse to make the statements etc as it’s a waste of my time on top of sorting out fixing the problems I’ve occurred as a victim.

Serendipity is correct where she said unthread we need to decide why we have the criminal justice system in the first place.

I have never seen a bill in Parliament fall apart like this. Maximum damage to Starmer, maximum incompetence, is he responsible and if not, who is?

It's extraordinary isn't it!

5 minutes to go before the vote and MPs still callng for the bill to be withdrawn

I suppose they imagine they will amend it at committee

Pulling the bill and start again would be the sensible action

MPs vote against Rachael Maskell's reasoned amendment seeking to kill off the welfare bill by 328 to 149

Will now vote on the second reading of the (almost entirely gutted) bill itself

It certainly would.

They have essentially voted for something that will be decided on in future, but no-one knows exactly what that will be.

"Kendall rules out resigning after her bill only passes following multiple U-turns branded shambolic
Liz Kendall, the work and pensions secretary, has recorded a pooled interview with Chris Mason, the BBC political editor.

She has ruled out resigning, saying she wants to carry on"

I think she might be toast!

The welfare reform Bill has passed its Second Reading after massive concessions

Yes: 335
No: 260

49 Labour rebels.

Full record

https://votes.parliament.uk/votes/commons/division/2074

Starmer and Co. have been so stupid. All they had to do was learn from what happened when Osborne tried to mess with PIP.

Meanwhile the disabled under 22s will suffer.

The horrible thing is that the parties on the right didn't think the bill went far enough. (Also reflected on MN)

Have we forgotten the various Brexit bllls so quickly ?

Our criminal justice system isnt fit for purpose. Imo it doesn’t serve the “justice” part.

It's purpose is to protect the wealthy from the mob.

If you know of a justice system in history that does otherwise, I am all ears.

I don’t think we need to go that far back - remember the Truss fracking bill debacle and whips manhandling MPs through the corridors?

I have seen governments defeated many times. I don’t recall a government unravelling and eviscerating its own legislation during a debate. Even during Brexit, I think they held on, even if it meant losing