Thread 26 Starmer: Cats, Rebels and Orange Chaos

[DuncinToffee]

Previous thread https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5349605-thread-25-starmer-cheers-for-a-falling-out-among-thieves?page=40&reply=145224605

Pensions are part of the social contract

That was broken years ago.

Its certainly been torn up in shreds but pensions are one of the last bits still, just, remaining...the NHS being the other but that really is heading to be a thing of the past.

Its something worth hanging onto, once Pensions are classed as a "benefit" the contract will be completely gone and pensions will come into the realm of cuts.

Debate due to start at 12.30

Vote at 7pm

The issue Britain has is not pensions imo but the social carrying of housing benefits and top ups to inadequate wages. If you combine that with the fact that most people do not make a net contribution in tax, then you can see the problem. The UK is slowly going bust because of its spending on mitigating the worst effects of capitalism which will not pay decent wages and inflated property asset prices. The young cannot make their way in a society like this, they are giving up or succumbing to mental illness.

Something has to be done to address the needs of the young. We are hollowing out what a society should offer them, giving them debts and harder and harder challenges. Reeves should be looking at asset taxes and spending on housing for the young. We have built this dreadful parasite economy that suits the old and rich: it needs change

The social contract is a product of the peculiar notion that we are all equal.

It's not needed when we aren't.

I'd have thought a SC is needed precisely because we are not all equal.

But our politics is moving ever to the right, so i expect things to change, negatively, a great deal in my life time.

Remember how the social contract was taught at school.

Anyone else think Reeves, rumoured, changes to ISA allowances have all the hallmarks of a IHT/WFA/Welfare debacles written all over them?

"Reeves clobbers the savers & strives" "Labour penalise the young saving for a house...."

I hope she keeps the 20k pa but limits it to say £100k in total allowance before a reduced tiered tax rate kicks in eg 10% increasing to 20% on very large holdings.

I think she is incompetent, economically and politically

Yeah, well having had a 10 year ISA deliver exactly what was paid in with (frm memory) £20 profit, I wouldn't really pin my hopes on these "products".

Meanwhile, elsewhere

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/jul/01/tech-firms-suggested-placing-trackers-under-offenders-skin-at-meeting-with-justice-secretary

11 More Government Reforms the Media Hasn’t Wanted to Tell You About

You probably won’t have read much about these announcements over the past few weeks

https://bylinetimes.com/2025/07/01/11-more-government-reforms-the-media-hasnt-wanted-to-tell-you-about/

Hopefully, the justice secretary's response was "Don't be so fucking ridiculous you money grabbing scumbags."

I thought the Covid vaccine had already implemented those trackers

😂

Won't be, much like NHS tech solutions, they'll be sucked in.

Tech seems to bamboozle some people.

I doubt it. I imagine that the appetite to regulate people who have committed crime out of prison time is massive.

It's not the reason that is a sticking point. It's the method.

Interesting. YouGov asked me would I be in favour of this in daily questions today…wondered where it had come from.

Wouldn't be against it in principal but only if part of a fully supported probation system, not a cost cutting exercise.

Prison should be a last resort, we jail more than almost any other country in Europe don't we?

I want whatever method works to stop people reoffending, get them re trained and working again, wherever possible... for the hardened career criminal - Prison.

I don't include sex offenders in any of the above.

Maybe also influenced by this Timpson interview?

https://www.itv.com/news/2025-07-01/prisons-minister-legislation-to-ban-most-short-sentences-due-imminently

Prisons minister: Legislation to ban most short sentences due 'imminently'

All this pitting young vs old regarding pension, we need to remember that as it stands, we will be entitled to this in the future. It's in my interests to keep it, and not let them cause division by insinuating that if you get it you are scum on benefits etc. That of course, will have no bearing or subtle insinuation to coerce you into taking advantage of the new suicide laws being introduced.

Somehow I doubt it. I imagine it's more like "How much public money do your shareholders want ?". Presumably followed by an order to the civil service "Double it !".

I fear my adult life is too lived to change.

Before arsing around with punishments, it would be a good idea to decide - at least for the next generation - what exactly the criminal justice system is there for.

Is it to protect the public ? (Because it doesn't)
Is it to punish the offenders ? (Because it doesn't)
Is it to rehabilitate the offenders ? (Because it doesn't)
Is it to dispense moral judgements from on high ? (Because it's inconsistent).
Is it to provide vast amounts of money for various private firms (Because it definitely does).
Is it to assist in the general provision by the state of an assurance of everyday peace ? (Because it doesn't)

The thing is that offenders on community sentences are already tagged. That is not a violation of human rights. Assuming you passed the custody threshold in law, it’s difficult to say why some of these proposals would not be lawful. They would be, if the alternative is prison