Thread 26 Starmer: Cats, Rebels and Orange Chaos

[DuncinToffee]

Previous thread https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5349605-thread-25-starmer-cheers-for-a-falling-out-among-thieves?page=40&reply=145224605

Both Ben Habib and Rupert Lowe have launched their own, separate endeavours today. “Restore Britain” and “AdvanceUK”. Both seemingly to make Refuk appear moderate by comparison.

We need some more rearrangements of the words "People's", "Front", and "Judea"...

Splitters

Restore Britain? Baldness, that one. Campaigning on a full head of hair for all blokes who want one.

Ben Habib was the Express' goto bonker Brexiteer for clickbait for ages.

You'd see "Brexiteer FUMES as <whatever>". Sometimes "Leading Brexiteer". Possibly "Prominent" too, but less often given how Express readers can struggle with new words.

Speaking of the thing that is done and dusted, anyone catch this doozy in the Mail ?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14836889/Sleeping-rough-Benidorm-Brits-living-homeless-encampment-losing-everything.html

They’ll both fade quickly - though I hope they do drag some Reform voters away - they will end up like the NF probably if they get any further than 20 sign ups. On the other hand Musk might see the toothpaste one and put shedloads of cash and manipulation in - I think he likes Lowe. Overall though, for some inexplicable reason, that I would not fathom in a million lifetimes, Frogface appeals to some people and he does generate/attract voters - more so than Habib and Lowe can do on a larger scale.
I do think Reform will lose momentum by the next GE - Frog likes agitating and the boringness of day to day work doesn’t seem to float his boat, so how much effort he’ll put in to keep on going is debatable - he’d probably thrive on an early election, so that needs avoiding. Maybe they’ll join forces with Tories under a Reform banner and old style Tories will reclaim a decent opposition space. I obviously have difficulty accepting the change in our politics isn’t temporary I think.

On the other hand Musk might see the toothpaste one and put shedloads of cash and manipulation in - I think he likes Lowe.

Is it too soon to know if Musk is ever going to get involved in politics again ? He genuinely seemed gutted by the reaction since January. And there is no way that someone with an ego his size cannot be host to some galaxy-sized insecurities.

Yes @SerendipityJane- Musk may well keep his fingers safe from burning again - I haven’t heard much about him since his fallout/partial make up with the orange one. Money backing Lowe would seem to be a complete waste of it too - don’t know how sensible Musk is but he must have some savvy.
I also think there was a bit of a want from trump to get U.K. on side, which might have played into Musk’s previous comments,but he’s not so bothered now I think seeing as he’s focussed on the BBB after dealing with the world last week 👀

Farage is a great communicator.

He knows what to say (or rather what to insinuate) to draw people in.

It’s a bigger problem for Labour than what they stand for as Labour comms are shocking.

I agree Musk must have some savvy. The same way Farage does. And absolutely agree they seem to prefer disrupting than the actual drudge of the hard work when your voted in.

All Musk wanted from Trump was to be left to run the US space programme.

No way was Trump ever going to let that happen. Which is now patently clear when you look at the BBB and realise it's pretty much gutting NASA.

I am guessing Musk is surrounded by the silence of people who daren't say "we told you so" (because they didn't).

Channel 4 News did an excellent piece on PIP this evening. They showed 3 disabled people who have already had cuts to what they are entitled to and all 3 were working people. Truly heartbreaking. I'm not affected by this at all and nor is anyone within my circle but it really made my blood boil. Worth a watch.

Summary of current situation wrt Labour rebellion

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/jun/30/welfare-reforms-could-push-150000-into-poverty-despite-concessions-impact-report-shows

I think comes down to a fundamental lack of honesty on Kendall’s part. What is clear is that she really wants to stop claims for mental health conditions or at least seriously limit them. But legally now the Government is in a massive bind; to do that alone would like be discriminatory and unlawful. So she reverts to adjusting points which is not discriminatory but wil likely affect a much broader class of disabled person.

This is her whole strategy and she cannot admit that what she wants to do is to stop younger, working age people from claiming PIP. But it is obvious from space.

Kendall didn't come across well in the Commons yesterday.

I said a while back that the force multiplier for PIP means changes will ripple out faster than for some other benefits.

We also need to remember that the state pension is a benefit too. That might concentrate so minds.

The state pension is a sacred cow. I disagree that it’s a benefit anyway but even if it was it’s untouchable, particularly after the WFA debacle.

Its not a benefit in any shape or form.

Plus its around 55% of the NMW.

Starmer needs to call a halt to these so called Reforms and start again, all this pain to save a relatively small amount.... WFA anyone???

But as with Reeves, this policy is not Kendals alone, the whole cabinet signed it off, with Starmer at the top....

Of course the State Pension is a benefit! It is included in government stats on benefits, which is a clue.

what makes something a benefit or not?

State pension paid out is a lot more than NI paid in.

NI contributions outstripped by state pension pay-outs - Pensions Age Magazine

A lot of pensioners don't want to think of themselves as "on benefits". Luckily they have a supine press to help them live that life. However the unpleasant truth is that WE are paying THEIR pensions. In the same way we are playing for everything else that government ever does. Or has done. Or will do.

Many years ago, I caught an interview with Max Bygraves (probably on Parkinson). This must have been the 70s as Parkinson joked about Bygraves (who was a phenomenally successful entertainer) about becoming a tax exile.

Bygraves demurred and then said he loved Britain too much ...

"... and when they turn the news on, and i see some tanks on exercise, I can say to myself ... I bought that !"

It stuck because both DM and DF snorted and said he was "damn right" (or possibly "damned right" it was half a century ago).

It’s not a clue at all. At some point in the last 20 years it was decreed to be a benefit by some politician who decided it was a good idea to feed the intergenerational warfare fire.

Pretending the SP is a benefit, is a handy way to sow division, that its outstripped by NI is a result of not keeping NI high enough, Hunt - one reason -cut NI to assist the belief that pensions are a benefit & ultimately, if its a benefit, it can be cut.....

I see pensions, as part of the contract between state and the population, it shouldn't be classed as a "benefit"

Or perhaps should the NHS be seen as a benefit too?

Yes its true that current pensions are paid for by current tax take, just as pensioners paid for their parents pensions and our children will pay for our pensions.

So what?

Well, now it's lit, it's not being put out anytime soon.

I think intergenerational warfare is the price you pay for not having a war in 40 years. By all rights 1979-1984 should have hosted WW3 which would have removed most of us from the picture and allowed the demographics to tend towards normalcy.

Only some idiots invented the atom bomb, so WW3 was cancelled. Or postponed. I suspect the end result may be the same whatever.

Golly, it's been hot these past few days.

Well I won't argue the toss, but if the State Pension is not a benefit because it is based on NI contributions, then neither are contribution based ESA or JSA.

Pensions are part of the social contract along with every other benefit- we agree to pay tax and NI in return for the Government stepping in if we become sick or lose our job or when we get old.

Maybe that’s why they’re called allowances?