Year 1 child excluded - help please

[ncforschoolhelp]

Hi all

I have a previous thread about my year 1 child's behavioural issues almost exclusively at school. He has now been temporarily excluded and I am really hoping for advice from any parents of young children who have been through similar, any teachers who could give any advice and any governors who might be able to shed some light on any appropriate next steps for me or from the school.

The reason given today was his level of disruption wasn't feasible for him to stay in the building and he wasn't calming down with the usual interventions the school give.

Happy to answer any q's and apologies for lack of insight so far.

I am a Reception teacher and it breaks my heart to hear this. To be excluded from school at 5 years old is very sad. Someone has failed your boy and it sounds like the school at the moment. Does he receive any pastoral support? My first port of call would be this to work on turn taking and build his resilience around not coming first. Totally not putting any blame your way but when you say he doesn’t react that way at home, is that because he usually gets his own way/comes first? Could you work on it being ok if we don’t always come first etc etc. Maybe have a favourite toy win a game? I have taught a child who has started to show similar reactions, not violent towards us. We have regular meetings with mom, pastoral support are involved and we are arranging for a children’s mental health specialist to come in and see them. If other children were in danger we would remove either the child or the others from the room, but unless this was extreme would not be sending home (which would be for the rest of the day if they were struggling to calm). I would ask for a meeting with school. See if they will work with you and let you know what support they have in place for your child.

I'm sure hundreds of people have written this already, but this is clearly undiagnosed SEND. It could be as simple as sensory issues causing subconscious overwhelm in the classroom.

How SEND presents is unique to each child and may not be immediately obvious, especially if the child is bright, as they may have a very mixed pattern of strengths and weaknesses. Being constantly overwhelmed also leads to anxiety.

It is very confusing, as a loving parent, suddenly having a DC who behaves in such an extreme way, but you're probably subconsciously compensating for your DS's support needs at home whereas they can't/don't do that at school.

Either way, the school needs to be helping you get a paediatric assessment rather than treating it like a simple behavioural issue.

The school are referring DS through local mental health services, and also to an Occupational Therapist. We have ourselves applied for an EHCP and the school are bringing back in the local Behavioural Service. They have requested Ed Psyche support too but this isn't a given, apparently.

I would look into an actual paediatric neurodevelopmental assessment. If you can afford it, a private one.

CAMHs, at best, are going to go "oh, yeah, he has INSERT SEND HERE" and bounce you back onto the waiting list for the neurodevelopmental screening.

SEND and mental health issues aren't the same thing. Autism/ADHD are neurodevelopmental conditions. They're often associated with mental health issues like anxiety, but they don't have to be and having severe anxiety normally means that support needs aren't being met.

It's a LOT more common for a kid to be diagnosed autistic, for example, than it is to have a freestanding mental health issue.

The school sounds like they're trying to turn this into a behavioural issue. Ultimately, if your child - for example - has very severe sensory issues causing meltdowns, then they can't be expected to control their behaviour in Year 1. It's not appropriate to expect a very young child to be able to successfully handle the equivalent of a full-blown panic attack - no one would expect that level of maturity in a neurotypical little one.

In some areas, ASD assessments are undertaken by neurodevelopmental paeds, but in other areas they are undertaken by CAMHS. So a referral to CAMHS isn’t necessarily the wrong way to go. It depends on the area.

Yep, it's neurodevelopmental paeds around here. CAMHS is mental health only.

@Londonwriter that might not be the case where the OP is, though.

Indeed, but the OP needs to confirm that's the case :)

There are a lot of posts further up discussing anxiety and it's important to note that, outside of very difficult family situations, anxiety in very young kids is often associated with SEND of some kind.

It's like asking Fred the Fish to climb a tree. If he becomes anxious, the problem isn't he has Generalised Anxiety Disorder - it's that he's a fish! Referring him to CAMHS to treat his anxiety isn't going to help him when he's got no legs and lives underwater. Obviously, if CAMHS is responsible for noticing he's a fish, not just treating anxiety, that does start to solve the underlying problem.

Well, yes, obviously. She probably already has since she discussed RTC. I was just pointing out CAMHS isn’t necessarily the wrong way to go because it differs between areas.

It is also worth noting SEN is an overarching term. It can encompass all types of SEN from ASD to MH difficulties (including anxiety) to SpLD to physical disabilities to...

We are very early into this journey and I am yet to wrap my head around all of the different routes and terminologies etc.

No one knows definitively whether we are facing into behavioural issues, SEN, neuro diversity, anxiety or something else. The teaching staff at his school - most of whom have been there for a long time (his year R and year 1 teacher have done many years at the school) as well as the experienced Head believe that this is based on anxiety. They can't and won't diagnose which is why they are reaching out and referring for OT & MH support which I believe is the right thing to do.

We cannot afford drawn out private treatment so we are going to work with whatever support we can get at the moment.

There is no way this child is going to end up neurotypical. Social stories will really help here OP. Act out with two little figures a story about conflict, about losing and have him tell you what each character is feeling and how the aggressor could do it differently. He needs to learn to tune into his own body and catch himself. He’s no where near that right now if the teachers are physically moving him. That just can’t be allowed to continue or it will become his coping mechanism. Blow top, be moved, then calm down. It’s not teaching him anything. You say you can’t afford a private dx but if you can beg borrow and steal I would. You don’t have to have the money for continuing treatment. But you do need to be armed with the knowledge of what is going on with him so he can be properly helped. I say this gently OP but given that you’re ND yourself you may not be seeing him clearly. Most parents who are ND themselves think their kids are ‘fine at home’ because it certainly fits in with how they are themselves. No one is better at accommodating and ND child than an ND parent.

Yes, they definitely won't be able to diagnose. And it's important not to assume they know enough to be able to say with confidence whether they think he is ND or not. I'm a teacher as well and although I have had training on neurodiversity, it's relatively superficial. When I started to suspect my son was ND, I had to do the research myself - my teacher training wasn't enough. The school staff, despite being utterly lovely, didn't think he was ND (they never said it to me but I got the impression they thought I was mad and seeing things that weren't there, perhaps to excuse his behaviour). The GP literally scoffed at me (actually, 2 GPs told me he wasn't autistic - I don't know why they thought they had the authority to make that call, but one of them was really quite unpleasant to me about it). But when we got him assessed, the assessors found him to be ASD and ADHD. Now he's a little older, it is much more obvious that he's ND. Nobody can make that call apart from those who are qualified to assess (and for my son's ASD diagnosis it required two people).
Additionally, yes his behaviour may be a result of anxiety (my son's was, and when we reduced that, the issues pretty much stopped), but sometimes the anxiety is because of being ND - my son's anxiety is part of his autism.

I think you're absolutely right to keep an open mind and to accept that at this point, nobody knows definitely what's going on here. Best to explore all avenues, and get all the assessments and support you can get.

I say this gently OP but given that you’re ND yourself you may not be seeing him clearly. Most parents who are ND themselves think their kids are ‘fine at home’ because it certainly fits in with how they are themselves. No one is better at accommodating and ND child than an ND parent.

Oh this was us... except we didn't realise we were ND. It was only through going through the process of assessing our son that we realised how many ASD and ADHD traits we both have (ie my husband and I). Clear as day now, and explains a lot! We've been accommodating our sons' needs - and each other's needs!! - at home forever without even realising it. It also gives us hope though that our kids will be fine. My husband and I have had our struggles, but ultimately we live happy successful lives, and I'm confident our sons can do the same.

I'm trying hard to steer away from labels; I'm not sure I'm ND myself, I certainly struggle with anxiety and OCD but otherwise I wouldn't say I have any concerns about my neurotypicality.

OCD is a type of neurodiversity. It’s just another way to be ‘wired’.

Can only comment on the Ed Pysch question in my school experience. Prior to the beginning of the financial year, in the budget setting process, most schools complete a form ‘buying in’ the services of a Local Authority Ed Pysch. You usually purchase in ‘days’ and each day is circa £500. An Ed Pysch will see 1-2 children for each day purchased. At this point in the academic year, it would be unusual to have any unspent/unallocated time. And it’s just not possible to buy more. Ed Pysch are in huge demand and overstretched as a service.
It may be that he can be prioritised for the next academic year.

Huge kudos to you (and to the school) for working in partnership this far. Maintaining a positive working relationship with them is of huge benefit to both sides.

@HelenaJustina thank you so much. I am super determined to work collaboratively and in support of the school, and it seems vice versa. We agree that another exclusion wouldn't be for anyone's benefit and the main objective is to keep DS in the classroom as much as possible and for the teachers to employ different interventions to support that, instead of the remove / repeat mentioned above.

Again, your friendly reminder that this varies according to area. In my area schools can buy as many EP days as they wish.

@DrRuthGalloway you are right, but they do still have to buy them. The services aren’t free. And budgets are famously tight!

Sorry I didn't get back when you replied about the school strategies etc. I've been following tho and I'm glad to see the meeting was fruitful and worthwhile. Good that you now have a bit of factfinding and exploring going on. What I don't get from the strategy is how the adults are with him, if that makes sense and imo that's so important. Is it cross and frustrated adult removing naughty boy or is it a coregulating adult that he likes being understanding and helpful while setting limits? I know you may not know this but it's important for me. I'd love to think of him getting some play therapy and a pp has mentioned using some toys at home to support him. It won't be a quick fix. But it may help to predict a situation and to explain what will happen. Great that he gets movement breaks, my onetime explosive got these just one year in school and they were great. A little play session on his own or with others would be great as part of withdrawal support if he is going to receive this. It doesn't have to be a play therapist. The support teacher can do a lot foe emotional and social in a play/creative setting wg painting, stories etc. I'm like you and I'm slow to see a label but I do look to the child's needs and seek to meet them.
Apologies for no paragraphs!!

PS there are some FB contributors worth following- synergetic play therapy - great info here on helping dysregulated children, Greg Santucci Occupational therapist and there's a podcast called Baffling Behaviours that I think might be helpful.

If he doesn’t like to lose I’d be creating opportunities at home where that might happen so you can deal with it together.

Do you let things go that he would be picked up for at school?

You said you talked to him for his behaviour at school but what is the consequence at home? Does he loses his iPad time for hurting someone for example.

From school point of view there is the rest of the class with their own needs who deserve to learn and feel safe.

Does he have any empathy for others? Does he understand that he’s hurt adults?

A colleague, a teacher of over 20 years, was hurt so often the other teachers were discussing taking a stand as a group to all refuse to teach the child who was violent. That’s never happened in my entire career but this teacher was having panic attacks about coming to work.

Sorry, I should have added, we all individually felt for this child but were very concerned for the health of our colleague. The near intervention we were about to stage brought about some big changes and thankfully things turned a corner. Possibly the exclusion was supporting the staff who will be finding it hard and hopefully this is a springboard to things getting better.

Taking his iPad hours later will have no impact when he next becomes dysregulated.

I’m not saying it will necessarily but consequences at home would back up school. It’s worth a try, that would work for some children, not others.