Year 1 child excluded - help please

[ncforschoolhelp]

Hi all

I have a previous thread about my year 1 child's behavioural issues almost exclusively at school. He has now been temporarily excluded and I am really hoping for advice from any parents of young children who have been through similar, any teachers who could give any advice and any governors who might be able to shed some light on any appropriate next steps for me or from the school.

The reason given today was his level of disruption wasn't feasible for him to stay in the building and he wasn't calming down with the usual interventions the school give.

Happy to answer any q's and apologies for lack of insight so far.

No, well I am not
When we have a pre PX or PX meeting parents are invited and given the opportunity to make a statement.
The vast majority don't turn up, I don't know if they cant be bothered, they think we can't go ahead without them or there is another reason.
An appeal can come later

I am naively hopeful that we are a long way away from any permanent exclusions and as I've said above I won't let the relationship with the school break down irretrievably by not attending meetings etc.

I'm sorry to all of you who have been through similar. I only use the chat app so don't do private messages etc but your support is completely invaluable.

We currently have a child who tried to set fire to the school and we haven't managed to PX yet so I think you are probably a LONG way from that.
For some kids a suspension is enough to make them realise how srious things are

The vast majority don't turn up, I don't know if they cant be bothered, they think we can't go ahead without them or there is another reason.

Often it is because parents are overwhelmed and need support (that isn’t forthcoming) to understand and navigate the system.

My AuDHD daughter exhibits worse behaviours at school and groups like Brownies (and is excluded from summer camps and some activity groups). The reason is likely that home is safe, quiet, predictable and far more pleasant.

I am sure that is the case sometimes, The Council offers an advocate in most cases though but I know some parents are just unable to

@Hoppinggreen in many areas, SENDIASS are not helpful. In some areas they are helpful, but in many they often repeat the unlawful policies of LAs and schools. Even in areas where they are useful, parents have to know they can contact them, be able to contact them, and the service has to have capacity to support them.

My son does Beavers and play dates (without us there) and is absolutely fine in those settings, as well as being fine when staying for a night or 2 with grandparents etc.

We're working on playing lots of games so he better understand losing, and trying super hard to be really consistent with reward and consequences so he understands and can articulate praiseworthy and poor behaviour.

Op have a look at the incredible years programme. It's really helped me with parenting my adhd kids. I did it as a course but you can buy the book or audiobook

www.amazon.co.uk/Incredible-Years-Trouble-Shooting-Children/dp/0578434512

I can't comment on other areas but our school always makes sure Parents are fully aware of the help and support available and the process that will be followed

@Hoppinggreen sadly, that doesn’t happen in many cases.

I echo what previous poster said about open classrooms/sensory overload. Speaking from experience, I can also say how overwhelming they can be to children with any sort of neurodiversity - and that's a lot of us. We'll do fine - maybe exceptionally well - in a well-known quiet environment, but once the rest of the world rushes in we retreat, sometimes very seriously. That is not to say, however, that we don't need to learn to be able to cope. We do. But gently, over time...

This is OUR problem, not for the rest of the world to solve. But it is real. In many cases, we develop some sort of outer case to show 'it's them, not me', and that tends to label us as disruptive and/or insolent, depending on whether we are defiant or conflict -advoidance. Just as an example, my mother was very very good at sewing. When we were small, we would wake up to see that she had created - overnight - a new dress for our favourite doll. We were delighted. That was so kind and loving of her.

Naturally, she began to teach us how to sew. I copied her; I found I was quite good at it. But when I went to the first years of junior school, I was told by - to me - some quite random teacher that I was doing sewing all wrong. (Impartial evidence shows that they were wrong , not me.) I'm afraid that all that teacher taught me - aged 7 or 8 - was to hate school and teacher authority because it did not correspond to the world as I honestly, genuinely experienced it. And I wasn't going to lie about my experience.

Thank goodness, by luck, I ended up as an excellent secondary school. I was a quiet and high performing academic student. The only 'problem' I was ever accused there was of 'insolence'. And that was because I genuinely had not understood why - a trivial and but possibly factual inaccuracy - mattered so much to those in power. Looking back, I must have been hell to teach.

If it matters, I got a place at Oxbridge when I was 17, at a time when 10 men were admitted for every woman and have had a successful career since then.

OP Your child is so young. They can't articulate the sort of feelings that I have described above. Mine might not be theirs, but they might experience similar issues. Perhaps they have bigger problems - I don't know and I can't say.. But perhaps, like me, they simply come from a very lovely, sheltered and rather naive environment. For me and my siblings, that meant that we honestly did not understand how the world out there functioned, and genuinely did not know how to relate it to our home experience, or how anyone might help us how to fit in. I suspect that there are many such cases of - in diagnostic speak - normal; children who still might struggle (depending on their individual needs and vasty differing home environments) in early years school years. Not with the same needs are ours but equally valid ones.

Are there any patterns to him kicking off due to losing etc? I.e. later on in the day or week? If so tiredness may contribute towards this. I can understand his need to win or be first which are pretty common and can understand him getting upset over it. But what strikes me is that him losing control and kicking/striking out is quite different to blowing raspberries and telling people to shut up etc. I actually would have more tolerance for him lashing out and losing it/having a meltdown/tantrum. However, blowing raspberries demonstrates more control and comes across as being more rude and poorly behaved. And i'm really sorry to say that, in my experience, some of the rudest children that I have met, come from very bright parents who try to be very understanding, kind and empathetic and read up in detail, rather than just laying down firm non negotiable boundaries. Sometimes it's very easy to overthink things, rather than just react less perfectly but quicker.

Obviously you may well not fit into this category. It sounds like you are trying to put in place boundaries and be consistent. However, the worst child I encountered had two parents both with PHDs in psychology and child psychology. Everything was very theoretical and full of analysis with minimal intervention. The children are now growing up into lovely teenagers because their parents are lovely, but they definitely needed to be given firm boundaries rather than having to learn these lessons for themselves.

Only you know whether you are seeking to understand the behaviour to the detriment of enforcing rules. You could gage this by asking other parents how they discipline or deal with different issues or simply paying close attention to how they parent.

I would at the very least pay for a child psychologist yourself.

If you did feel that he needed a shorter school day or a year at home, you could always see if your bank could give you a mortgage break for a year.

Best of luck.

OP I'm so sorry. I can't remember if I posted on your last thread but I suspect I did (sounds familiar). My son is also Year 1 and this sounds like how he was last year.

I know you said money is a concern. But can afford to get the ball rolling? Can you afford an OT assessment for instance (mine was around £400 for my son)? Or SALT assessment? Ed Psych is more expensive I believe (we use the LA one as part of the EHCNA but if I could do it again, I'd definitely pay for a private one as well).

We used Right to Choose to get an ASD and ADHD diagnosis for free, with a private company, very quickly. If I were you I'd insist on the GP making that referral immediately.

I hope school is using ABC charts and at least has an IEP in place..?

I would also, if you haven't already, apply for an EHCP. If the school won't, just do it yourself. If he's getting excluded, he has needs of some sort, so this will be the route to support.

Hope that helps but do feel free to send me a message if you want to talk. I've been in a similar situation and it's awful. I also work full time and couldn't afford to give up work.

So many thanks to the last few posters for their really lovely messages.

@Worriedmotheroftwo I think you did post on my last thread and your advice here is invaluable.

I have chased the GP today who have said they have lost the forms we and the school filled out back in November last year which is devastating as it's taken us nearly 9 months to find that out. I have discussed right to choose with the GP and been told that there is still a very long waiting list - several years here - but am not giving up and will continue to chase.

I don't know how to start the ball rolling for an EHCP but tonight will be all about finding that out.

It's super tough and now he's asleep I'm having a little cry for the tiny boy he was, about 5 minutes ago. I just want him to be happy and he obviously isn't at the moment.

EHCP information will be on your County council website under SEND or SEND and Inclusion. If you find the forms difficult to find ring their SEND department as County councils have to ensure their forms are accessible

Oh fgs, of course they lost the forms. 🙄 I'm sorry, that's just so rubbish and unfair. I'm afraid you're going to have to pester and make yourself a nuisance. Follow up on everything. Demand confirmation of everything in writing. Be 'that' parent. I had to bulldoze my way into getting my son support (and I'm actually quite a timid introverted person, probably autistic like my boy actually).

Re Right to Choose ... it's not uncommon for GPs to know very little about it. Search for it on Facebook and join the Right to Choose Facebook pages. Get a list of RTC providers for ADHD and ASD, and phone them all, one by one, tomorrow, to find out what the 'real' waiting time is. I guarantee they are not all 'years'. I'm going through the process for a second time now (my youngest son, in Reception, is also suspected ASD). People on the fb groups are far more knowledgeable than me and I promise will help.

The EHCP is tough. I treated it practically like a full time job (on top of my full-time job). I read everything I could on the process, and attended webinars run by IPSEA and phoned SOSSEN for advice. I tried to become an expert in EHCPs because nobody would care as much about my son as me, so I needed to be his advocate. It worked - 6 months later, after battling and fighting and arguing more than I've ever had to do in my life, we got one. And he's had lots of support ever since (thankfully paid for by the LA). And he's doing great at the mo. Prepare for a real fight, but it's worth it. And, once you've researched EHCPs, don't presume anyone else is a complete expert. Even IPSEA - they were brilliant, and I am so grateful to them, but even they don't know everything. Every situation is different. I taught my son's school SENCo some things about EHCPs. Make it YOUR business to become the ultimate expert and then you won't have to rely on other to get it right.

I'm sorry. I've cried so many tears about my own little boy. Your son IS still so little. He's still tiny and have everything ahead of him still. Anything is possible. He just isn't getting the support he needs right now.

Let me know if there's anything I can do. I'm forever grateful to the mums who helped me on MN last year (they introduced me to Right to Choose in particular, which I'd never heard of), and always try to pay that forward now. You might be in the same position this time next year, with a happy, confident son - you just don't know. Everything changes so quickly (for better and worse!).

On their website, IPSEA has a model letter you can use to request an EHCNA. You don’t have to use the LA’s form. If you want to use IPSEA’s model letter, that will suffice.

Don’t worry about not being able to afford independent assessments. If you need to appeal and aren’t eligible for legal aid, which can cover independent assessments where necessary, there are charities such as Parents in Need who can help.

Like @Worriedmotheroftwo , I also found the EHCNA process tough and we’ve only just got to submission but it’s free and you can do it by yourself. But discuss with the SENCO first. It’s all about evidencing your child has additional needs and school have done everything they can but still can’t meet need. Which they clearly can’t if they’re excluding him!

Have you looked at PDA? I know someone whose child had a very similar reception and Year 1 experience to what you describe (multiple exclusions, part time timetable) and he has ASD with a PDA profile. Like you, they had no issues at home - you may well have naturally and unconsciously adapted how you parent him at home without realising. He is now doing really well with the right support. Hopefully your little one will too.

this was almost exactly my son. Things have probably changed a lot, but for me this was the beginning of the school pushing the case that they couldn’t meet his needs. I’m not going to lie, absolutely hellish few years followed
I wish in hindsight I had focussed my energy on getting the right setting, because trying to battle to make him fit, to make them care was futile and ruined my mental health. Fact is they couldn’t and wouldn’t meet his needs
I got an autism diagnosis, they said he was BESD profile
i got a brilliant statement which gave him access in a new school to a resourced provision AND a full time 1 to 1 in mainstream class as he was very bright
can’t say the next years were perfect, but that school changed his life

he is now a successful adult with a first and starting a masters. He works. He lives independently with his friends who he is band members with. He has a girlfriend
he’s alive

im not saying your son is the same, but not fighting the mainstream system was the best thing I did

I had two younger sons who are NT, one was a baby

it was the most horrific time for us all, playground isolation, judgment, fear, gossip, my younger boys ostracised

we survived and flourished

you need however to accept something needs to be done, and schools don’t have the resources, they have a duty to all children to be safe and educated

What a lovely outcome though. This is so heartwarming to hear (the adult bit obviously - the lack of care in the early days is abysmal).

It may be the environment is triggering a more extreme response? If he is already in ‘flight or fight mode’ and anxious about being there, this would lead to the exaggerated response in that setting, whereas at home, his safe place with people he loves and is loved by that heightened response just won’t be there.
I know you have said that looking at things privately isn’t an option but you can do it step by step. Our eldest was falling apart and we couldn’t wait, an initial consultation with a paediatric consultant was around £200 in our area, we progressed from there and I think by the end of the process it had cost us around £2500 but the help we got was invaluable.
I understand how overwhelmed and down you feel and there is nothing worse then people pointing the finger at your parenting etc in our case it made no sense that it was our parenting style etc because his siblings were ‘normal’ and we had the same rules and boundaries for everyone.
I think it’s normal to cry and grieve for the little person they once were, I know I cried buckets along the way.
Sending you a big hug, it may be worth looking into alternative provisions that may be available in your area, or a pastime schedule if the school will allow it, with the days not in school at a different setting ie forest school etc.

The primary I am involved with might use a 24 hour exclusion like this in response to violence towards other students or staff to pause in order to review the plan for that child. They do have a good record of making good progress with students who had quite significant behaviour issues in the earlier years. They look particularly at reducing and managing triggers. Access to any sort of external support is just dire at the moment. Can you afford a private Ed Psych assessment at all? Hope the reintegration meeting is productive and a plan that you are satisfied with can be agreed.

It is still possible to get an EHCP even if the school could do more but won’t.

I haven’t read all the replies, but have you looked into PDA?
His behaviour sounds routed in anxiety from unmet needs at school. When things feel out of his reaml of control he suffers from nervous system dysregulation and it basically results in behaviour like a panic attack. Low demand parenting and school taking a low demand approach will help. Children with PDA are usually very bright working above level but this nervous system disability makes them very reactive when the perceive a demand or feel they don’t have control. It’s a profile of autism.

I’d suggest looking at the PDA society and Dr Naomi Fisher who is fantastic at understanding PDA