Year 1 child excluded - help please

[ncforschoolhelp]

Hi all

I have a previous thread about my year 1 child's behavioural issues almost exclusively at school. He has now been temporarily excluded and I am really hoping for advice from any parents of young children who have been through similar, any teachers who could give any advice and any governors who might be able to shed some light on any appropriate next steps for me or from the school.

The reason given today was his level of disruption wasn't feasible for him to stay in the building and he wasn't calming down with the usual interventions the school give.

Happy to answer any q's and apologies for lack of insight so far.

@Worriedmotheroftwothankyou, that's so kind. The whole experience is still such a traumatic memory. It is quite bizarre how cruel people are, i knew the impact of his behaviour, but he is still my child and i fought for him

the result is 3 successful, brave, empathetic young men. When your child has extreme hehavioural problems society thinks it is your fault, or you should just write them off as 'bad'.

We're going through this at the moment with our son, who is in reception and will be 5 in August.

He's already been temporarily suspended 3 times so far.

It is so depressing.

This might be the biggest challenge in securing any diagnosis whether you believe its ASD ADHD or ODD, because it doesn't seem to be present in different environments.

Frankly I think that is outdated personally because different environments have different stressors and so obviously children will behave in different ways in these circumstances.

I really feel for you and your poor boy who clearly feels pushed out at school for struggling to stay regulated and being labelled a distraction by school already.

@Jimmyneutronsforehead thank you. You've hit the nail on the head for me in that I know he feels pushed out and feels like "the naughty kid" when actually he just (just!) struggles to regulate himself.

He is not 100% perfect in other settings, and the wanting to win / not lose etc plays out in things like cricket club and beavers. But. Never to the extent it does at school. Nowhere near.

My understanding is that with ADHD the behaviour has to be present in more than one setting, but it certainly doesn’t for ASD. My child was assessed for both and although the paediatrician is convinced he has ADHD, they were unable to make a formal diagnosis due to school not observing particular behaviours. For ASD, this wasn’t a factor and although school’s response was taken into consideration, it wasn’t the deciding factor.

It's a self fulfilling prophecy isn't it.

He has different needs, they can't meet them, he behaves in a dysregulated way, they treat him like he's naughty, this is dysregulating and causes further behaviours, they say he's getting naughtier and causing a distraction, he displays behaviours that are clearly a call for help from them, they stick their fingers in their ears and say they've had enough he's just naughty and then he has lost trust towards the school that they have his best interests at heart and he acts out because he is just branded too distracting and willful. It's painful to see, especially when in order to get the support you need through an EHCP, you've got to watch your child go through the ringer while they collect evidence, especially when they're looking at it through a neurotypical lens.

If you have tiktok I recommend following neuroteachers, it's a lady called Catrina and she is a ND trainer and advocate and she teaches schools how to support neurodivergence in the classroom and identify dysregulated behaviours, and I've found the way she explains things to be extremely helpful when trying to advocate for my son at school and throughout his EHCP process. I save a lot of her videos in a bookmark collection just for this purpose, and she actively responds to genuine questions.

OP I know you're completely overwhelmed but I'm wondering again if you know what the adults do when he gets dysregulated like, especially around pretty particular and routine situations that you'd think they could predict and plan for? What is their response to him? I'm very sorry if I've missed this, I did think I've read all of the thread.

@mikado1 he has some allowances / interventions specific to him which include going outside for a run / in his words to get the "ants out of his pants", he has his own workbooks he can do when dysregulated, when possible he works with one of the LSA's in the classroom, sometimes he gets to help with jobs or reads etc.

When he is dysregulated badly, quite often he is removed from the classroom for his and others safety. This, I think is the absolute crux of it; he wants to be in the classroom. He loves learning and his teachers and his friends. Being removed from the classroom upsets him and he responds with violence or extreme disruption or raspberries / saying shut up / rarely saying " I hope you die".

The one outcome I want to achieve tomorrow is that we all agree the best thing is that he's in the classroom as much as possible but I know that's not always possible.

I have applied for an EHCP assessment this evening. It was almost embarrassingly easy and I wish I had done it before. But it feels good having done something, however small.

Apologies @mikado1 you asked what the adults do. When removing him from the classroom they will have to often physically remove him. Otherwise they follow their plans / interventions / training as rigidly as they can, from what they tell us.

Tell the world you don’t know how behaviour works in one post.

I have applied for an EHCP assessment this evening. It was almost embarrassingly easy and I wish I had done it before. But it feels good having done something, however small

Amazing- well done, OP. Small steps add up. This is a really important first step.

You have to talk to the child at home about why the child is causing problems. Children can talk and express feelings. I went through this, and was almost expelled myself in primary school but it was because i was being bullied almost everyday.

Thank you @Pryceosh1987. We talk always, he is unsaid to tell us any incidents with other children and when there has been very, very low level unkindness from others he has told us and the school has dealt with it. We are certain that he is not being bullied.

We have our reintegration meeting this afternoon which my hope is that the main outcome is we all agree that his place is in the classroom and that we will all do what it takes to keep him learning with his friends.

Unafraid, not unsaid.

That said, a lot of other children have picked up on his behaviour and call him "naughty"; to his far and in front of teachers and us at times.

I accept that this is a consequence of his behaviour and as sad as it is to hear, at this stage I'm not sure there is a huge amount that can be done. I have seen the school deal with this really well and they do not tolerate it.

With respect OP, it is clear from this that he needs more support. Did you think his experience of school was normal? The sorts of things you have listed are relatively rare and hopefully now you are aware, you can get the ball rolling on an EHCP.

I hope the meeting this afternoon was productive and you are reassured.

Honestly, school should all allllll over this, have they talked to you about strategies to manage the behaviours, or reasons they're showing up/triggers.
If I were you I'd see a private Ed psych and get them to observe in school, it's expensive but you need to rule out sen whatever school think. My sons sen came out really strongly in yr 1 because it's a very different environment to reception and the expectation is very different, the pressure really brought out issues. I'm so glad we paid for private assessments because it meant we nipped it in the bud, got him the support he needed, got school on board and it really helped make sure he was as happy and settled as he could be. Children behaving this way are trying to tell you something in very blunt terms.
I'm struggling with how he would be on the Sen register but school don't believe that's causing the issue/haven't referred him for asd/adhd etc.
It could just be behaviour but I think at 5/6 that level of aggression is unusual without sen. I would suggest also looking for local psychologists who can support you as a parent with strategies for managing him at home, even if the behaviour is less. I found we had almost sleep walked into parenting around my sons sen, without realising it wasnt "normal", and this meant we saw less of the behaviour at home. I wonder if you can practice some of his triggers at home (e.g. getting him to share with you, stopping an activity when you say, losing at a board game) so you can practice helping him emotionally regulate himself and put in place some techniques he can use (simple ones given his age). We bought a lot of books like Colour Monster and did things like candle breathing, counting backwards from ten, a frustration cushion etc. If you can find what works at home, and practice it, then school might be able to copy. I don't personally think reward/consequence is always the best, it sort of masks what's going on in their head (eg I'm really angry about losing but if I show that then I'm on the naughty step/I really want my ipad as a reward for not shouting so I'll just shut up for now). Supporting him sharing his emotions with you and building techniques to emotionally regulate is better. Maybe he's realised at school that the "consequence" is he gets to stay home, and the rewards there are limited (sticker at best) - he needs to learn why these behaviours are important and he needs to want to behave for its own sake not because of a reward or a consequence.

How did the reintegration meeting go OP?

I hope you've managed to feel empowered enough to tackle this today.

Thanks all.

The meeting was really, really productive. I'm trying to catch up with work as have missed a lot this week but essentially we feel that the school are deploying every weapon in their arsenal to support with moving things forward for our son.

The school are going to complete referrals for an OT to support and a referral to CAHMS.

All in all I feel really positive about things. I think we are very much at the beginning and although it stung, the comment above about sleepwalking into SEN resonates.

We believe that almost all of his poor behavioural choices stem from anxiety so this is where we are going to start from a healthcare and medical perspective.

Thanks so much again all and I'm happy to answer any q's as conscious you've all given so much and I'm answering quite briefly but it's been a day!!!

My son had AuDHD and had similar behaviours at school. It has gotten much better since we got diagnosis 2 years ago and he got support. We still had to really push back at the school before Christmas and say ‘that behaviour is related to his autism and you didn’t put interventions in place soon enough/you didn’t follow his plan/you aren’t doing the things on his EHCP designed to help him cope with these situations and develop strategies to him him deal with these situations.’ Since we pushed back a bit more things have got much better. I know the parents of someone else in his class are really struggling because they can’t get her in for diagnosis and they are still having all the issues as the only TA in the class is the only
son’s EHCP funds so she is attached to him most of the time. My son is also academically bright (ahead in maths and a year ahead in reading but behind in writing and spelling).

You're going to have to point out to me where I said anything that could be remotely interpreted as "a bit disgusting".
Especially as you neither the OP, nor (as far as I can see) a very experienced primary school teacher.

I can’t believe schools are having to suspend year 1 children these days. Why are there so many children with behavioural issues now?

A 7 year old should definitely be able to articulate their reflections on their behaviour!

Please research CAMHS so that you understand the process/common pitfalls in advance.
For example: there are two "pathways" in CAMHS, one for ND children and one for NT. If your child turns out to be ND, then a) they will bump you off the NT waiting list and need to start again, which can lose a lot of time as these lists are long b) if you get to the front of the NT list but they are actually undiagnosed ND you might end up being given help that isn't actually appropriate or helpful for the issues/the way your child works, which is a massive waste of everyone's time (especially your distressed child) and c) if you go onto the ND pathway they generally won't treat anxiety at all because it is considered "comorbid" with conditions such as autism (even though that is generally effect rather than cause
and still requires techniques to help manage it no matter what the source).

@springtimemagic he is only just 6 and I'd argue that most 6 year olds absolutely can't articulate why the have behaved in a certain way.

Not in a way that most adults can understand, anyway.