How do you honestly feel about a baby having two mums?

[Corneliusthecamel]

Hi,

Recently, a close friendship has come to an end and it’s been difficult to process. Long story short - I am a woman married to another woman and I gave birth to a baby last year who was conceived via sperm donor/fertility treatment through the NHS. We are all really happy and she is beautiful.

A good, long term friend of mine has become increasingly distant over the past couple of years. I confronted her about this recently and she admitted that she struggles with my life choices and doesn’t feel it’s right that I have chosen to bring a baby up with another woman. She feels very strongly that a baby should have a traditional mum and dad unit where possible and feels that I am wrong for choosing this path.

Anyway, the friendship is over, and I think that’s the right thing for both of us - it’s not really possible to carry on when we both have such different views and experiences of the world.

But it has made me want to ask - what are your honest opinions of two women choosing to pursue fertility treatment and having a baby? Obviously it’s my life and I’m happy so in one way, who cares. But I truly didn’t think my friend held those types of views and often, people won’t speak their true thoughts in real life, so I am curious what people truly think about it

You heavily implied that babies born to parents with medical interventions are more loved than those who are conceived naturally.

It’s nonsense

I don't care.

Two mums - lucky baby and lucky mums!

Two dads - fine, provided not a surrogate/premature separation from mum situation.

Had an awkward situation recently where a friend asked for a gofundme surrogacy IVF fund, and sad as her situation is, surrogacy is just a step too far away from the needs of a child for the sake of parents.

I'm fine with same sex couples of either sex having children. On a personal level I find egg donation tricky - I made the decision not to pursue this when I couldn't conceive, as I felt I could never have donated an egg of my own since I'd feel responsible for the well being of any child created. I guess sperm donation could be considered different, though maybe that's only as it's a much easier process than egg donation - the bio father has still relinquished responsibility for that child. (But many men do similar and it's often not through sperm donation as such....).

I think surrogacy is troublesome and adoption is a much more ethical route, though not without its own issues, of course. I know a gay male couple who adopted two sets of two children- so four in all - and they are fantastic parents.

As for whether you are the 'real' parent if you're not biologically related - my children are adopted and we are 100% their real parents! As in, nurtured and cared for them. They are all over 18 now - have had contact with their birth families but there are no or only limited bonds there. Not down to us, we were open to them making contact. Blood is NOT thicker than water imo!

So OP, your ex friend is mean, prejudiced and very wrong, in my opinion. Does she also shun single mothers whose children have no contact or very limited contact with their fathers?

I think all children should have the opportunity to know both biological parents. If their day to day parents are two mums then I’m indifferent, really. I do have issues with anonymous sperm/egg donation and surrogacy.

Nope. But then I don’t know those details either besides very basic details. However the rules in the UK are now that donor conceived children have the right to access such information and pursue contact with their donor if they wish to when they reach 18.
And I think that’s fine to be honest, it’s good. I would never lie to my daughter, I’ll always tell her honestly how she came to be in this world. If she chooses to try and contact her donor when the time comes then I’ll support her to do whatever she wishes. I’m sure the road won’t always be easy but I’m prepared for the discussions and hope she can always be open with us 😁

This.

I wouldn't give it a second thought, families come in all shapes and sizes!

By the time they're teenagers there will be children in every cohort raised by single parents, divorced co-parents, blended families, grandparents, siblings or who have been through the care system, it seems wild to judge a family with 2 loving parents.

I'm surprised at how many would have an issue with a male couple having a baby. I have a friend who would be a brilliant dad but it's actually impossible in my country without surrogacy or adopting from overseas so he's undecided if he and his husband will ever go for it.

My own husband is a total nurturer and has been a hands-on dad since Day 1 so I wouldn't doubt a man's ability to give the same love and care as a woman.

Mumsnet does tend to be a bit more conservative on things like this @Corneliusthecamel so just bear that in mind when reading replies.

All children have a mother and a father and should have a right to have a relationship with both parents.

Sometimes that's not possible or in the child's best interests because one parent absent themselves, dies or is a danger to the child.

But to create children with the explicit intention to deprive them of one of their parents and that role in their life, to meet adults needs, is not something I agree with as I think we should put child's needs first.

Having said that I am friends with a lesbian couple who have children together. They are wonderful parents and a happy family, but I do think it is wrong to plan to deprive children of a father.

We remain friends however because I don't think it's my place to openly judge others lives. Believe me there is plenty they could judge me and my patenting on, but they don't. Not to my face anyway 😁.

They probably suspect my views due to my religious beliefs but we accept our differences and manage to remain friends.

If explicitly asked though I'd express my opinion above. But as I'm not asked I don't.

Your friend is an idiot who should focus on her own life.

I'm grateful for having had a mum and a dad. I tend to think its good for a child to have both male and female adults around who love and care for them.

But any combination of parents, 1, 2, male, female, whatever is great so long as they care about the child and look after it.

A child with 2 dads is likely to have got there through surrogacy (hugely risky for the mother) and suffer lifelong trauma through being taken from the mother at birth.

That is a wildly different scenario, physically and psychologically, than for a child born to two women who used a man’s sperm and a turkey baster.

Wouldn't phase me either way

My view also

I know 4 lesbian couples with kids,

1 couple used sperm from a male friend and he is an involved father
1 couple adopted
2 couples used sperm donors

All of them have very carefully thought about male role models in their kids lives - uncles, close family friends etc. I also know loads of kids with heterosexual parents with terrible male role models because their dads are useless/ absent.

Unfortunately one couple moved from where we live and have experienced some homophobia. Sorry to hear you’ve discovered that your friend held these views

I know two couples who have same arrangement and have no issue with it. They are colleagues not close friends, but if I had a friend in the same situation I would be totally supportive of them.

Two parents who actively want and love a child are best - better than two parents where one or in fact both don't really want the child...

As for the 'needs a male/female role model' - well all children benefit from having a variety of adults in their lives, and many will not get that for a variety of reasons.

I wouldn't be concerned about a boy being raised by two women who are otherwise sensible, sociable, take the kid places, do things etc...

I'd be WAY more concerned about a boy being raised by a man and a woman where the man is a toxic twat and the kid stays home, never meets anyone else, parents are absolute idiots.. etc etc!

This is pretty much how I feel too. It's intentionally bringing a child into the world that will never have a relationship with its father that is my issue. It's half their genetic makeup, unavailable. I've also been listening to a number of podcasts recently which have really been driving home the point that children (especially boys) need a father figure and how we're failing boys atm. Fathers provide different functions than a mother (e.g. resilience, independence, risk taking etc through rough housing and physical play) blah blah blah.

Having said that, I do know a number of lesbian couples so I don't care strongly enough to stop friendships over it.

That's interesting because alot of 'mummy's' can also be this type and are not maternal.

No feelings either way, I think it’s fine through donors/fertility treatment.

I am completely anti surrogacy though so I can’t agree with anyone that does that regardless of sex or sexuality.

By implication that makes me against a lot of male couples with babies though. Adoption is different if ethical (I don’t agree with buying babies from deprived countries either).

I would have had somewhat of a conservative view before when I was younger similar to your friend believing that a baby and a child should have a traditional family and parents set up of mum and dad.

But I changed somewhere along the way and left that behind me somewhere.

Now I think that there are other ways for couples to conceive a baby through medical intervention and so what if that couple is a same sex couple.

I think tiktok and following accounts and some accounts are same sex couples, some are sex parents - i think it really helped me to understand more.

I think this is where I am.

I genuinely don't have any real thoughts or feelings about other people's loving relationships, and feel growing up as part of a family whatever shape it takes is hugely preferable to not. But I am opposed to surrogacy (regardless of the sexual orientation of the intended parents) and feel that donor conception needs acknowledgement and thoughtful handling.

We have a couple of 2 mum families at school, and a 2 mum family in our extended circle and all seems to be having a very happy time.

I may be slated for this but, it’s not possible for a child to have two mums, or two dads. A child has a mother and a father regardless of who brings up the child.

I’ll admit that I don’t agree with egg/sperm donation anyway but that also means that I’m not in favour of people becoming single parents by choice.

But while two men or two women may choose to bring up a child, only one of those people is the child’s parent. And before anyone suggests that people adopt and have two parents, it’s not the same.

Children naturally have two parents. A mother and a father. If a woman chooses to have a baby through sperm donation then the other woman isn’t and will never be that child’s mother. It’s just not possible.

I have a gay friend who doesn’t believe that it’s ok for two men to bring up a child either, and as such he and his partner would never go down that route.

I do think it's important for a child to have a good 'fatherly' role as well as a mum. In the same way that if a baby had two dad's i'd think it was important they had a female in their life.

It doesn't need to be a typical mum/dad set up though and can be any close family member/friend.

Your friend must have strong views!

I think it is hard for the child where they have purposely been brought into the world and don't have the knowledge of their genetic make up, until they are 18 if they are lucky.

Different if adopted, as that was not the purpose of the pregnancy. I speak as an adopted person

No issues with two mums or two dads. Know examples of both who are raising happy and loved children. How many children are raised by single parents, grandparents etc? A child that is loved, respected and well looked after is all the matters to me.