How to tell DD no sleepovers

[NoSleepOver]

Hi,
My DD is 10 and some of the girls in her year at school have gradually started to have or go to sleep overs. One of the girls in my DD’s class has now invited 5 of them for a sleepover for her birthday.
Now each to their own but I will say that I am very much against sleepovers. I’ve just decided it’s a blanket no. The problem I have now is my DD asking me why not. I know the girls parents fairly well - they aren’t friends of mine but I’ve known them a few years, they seem decent enough and we’ve spent time together with the kids outside of school. But of course you never really know, hence why I’m just saying no to sleepovers for the foreseeable future. I know not everyone will agree, but this is the decision I have made.
DD is now asking me why she can’t go and obviously I can’t say because her parents might be p**s! I obviously don’t think they are, but you never can tell can you. And it’s easier say no to everyone than yes to some and no to others.
To DD so far I’ve said she might not like it and want to come home, that she has no means to contact me as she doesn’t have a phone - DD wants to go and obviously doesn’t understand the issue, so insists she won’t want to come home and that if she needs to speak to me she will ask the parents to contact me.
Help me make it make sense to her and why it’s ok for other people to go and not her!

I was abused by another girl at 10 and it really affected me so yeah my DD won’t be going to sleep overs until later.
i think staying until 10/11 and picking up then is acceptable though

When giving her a reason, say explicitly it is because of you/your position.

Otherwise she might try to "solve the problem" -
if you said to the 10 years old me "I don't know their rules", I'd question the friend and provide you with a written version of whatever "rules" I'd get from her - fully expecting to go, because the problem is solved.

I 100% agree with your blanket NO . I am the same .
With my child it’s always been known it’s a no . It’s not been a sit down explain convo it’s just something that was spoken about naturally.
At 10 I too think honesty is best .”I like to have you home at night where I know you are safe “
Can you message the parent and say we aren’t a house for sleepovers but would you mind if I collect my Dd before bed ? If. A parent asked me that I’d totally understand and be fine but not everyone agrees.

I have 3 adult DC and had to navigate the 'why not' question many times. My rule was that unless I could come up with a reasonable and rational answer, that was fair and justifiable, to deliver in an age appropriate way, then maybe I needed to review my decision. If your decision here is based on thinking your daughter may be at risk of abuse from other parents, then you need to explain that some adults hurt children and that unless you know them well you feel you can't be sure the parents aren't these type of adults. Obviously there is a risk your daughter will then fear other parents, and may even share what you've said, which will be problematic. But if that's genuinely what you think, I think you do need to own that and be honest.

Are you saying all the posters raised by anxious parents are making up the difficulties they had as a result? Because that’s pretty offensive if you are.

I am incredibly sorry about what happened to you but I don’t understand the logic here - abuse doesn’t just happen after midnight or when people are in pajamas.

If you don’t trust parents to keep your child safe overnight why do you trust them in the afternoons or the evenings?

OP, my mum was similar and also forbade sleepovers until I was 16 or so. She made up lots of reasons the time - eg that sleepovers would mess up activities I did on the weekend, mess up her own schedule, mess up my exams because I’d be tired etc etc. It was incredibly annoying at the time and did impact friendships - girls at that age are not easy and it’s especially difficult being the awkward one out being taken home at 10pm for those kinds of reasons. I now realise her actual reason was the same as yours, but she never told me at the time. I expect she also was afraid I’d repeat to my friends that my mum thought their dad was a paedo etc.

In retrospect, I wish she had been more honest with me as it led to a lot of resentment, and ironically much dodgier behaviour when I was 16 and finally allowed to stay over (as of course then the threat came much more from the stupid actions of me and my friends..). I think the wording suggested by Ughn0tryte is good. I don’t think I’d be offended if my kid repeated something along those lines to their friend, as long as you were consistent in your no sleepover approach (which it sounds you are).

FWIW I still think my mum was overly paranoid as we knew my friends’ families well, and why would she socialise with people she didn’t trust etc, but I get the general worry. It sounds like forbidding sleepovers is also more mainstream now (I read that khloe kardashian doesn’t allow them??) so maybe your daughter won’t be the odd one out anyway?

I love this answer - especially the bit about being able to explain rules logically.

Yes that's definitely what I'm saying :')

I would ask parents not to let general fears - it's different if it's a situation where you have a specific fear about a specific situation/person - restrict your dc.

Dm used to worry and I was stopped from doing things because of her worries.

I remember far more the left-out and sad feeling of not being allowed to go on one Brownie trip because "it's winter and it might be icy when you return and the coach will then hit ice, overturn and you'll all be killed..." to somewhere that I'd been before, than the excitement and fun when I went to somewhere that was really unusual and at the time I absolutely loved.

It's not just the actual day. It's the build up and the afterwards you feel out of it.

And it did effect friendships, because often these things were times when people bonded.

Heck, at a similar age dm would have worried about me walking round the village with friends during the day, she hitchhiked round Europe with only one other (female) friend.

The quote is right there “made up mental health consequences” 🙄

Some of my best memories from school are of sleepovers. We all had a great time and it was a proper bonding experience, staying up all night and chatting. I understand OP’s concern, but if 5 girls are all asleep in the same room, surely that’s pretty low risk? Anyone attempting to abuse someone would risk waking them all up.

I wouldn't allow until year 6 start of y7. The reason I said was she was to young and also I cba with babysitting lots of kids. As they get older I don't have to do anything when they were younger I had to do everything and entertain them

It happened when everyone else was asleep. I do think sleepovers follow a bit of a routine, typically kids watch a movie and have popcorn etc - it would be after that and before bedtime I’d be wanting to pick up my kid and this would only be within an environment where I trusted the parents and knew the other girls.

The girl who abused me when I was 10 came from quite an unusual family, i do think looking back that she could have been abused herself which would have explained her behaviour as she knew what to do, i had no idea.

If you are not comfortable with it, you're not and that's fine. Obviously you can't share your fear with DD as that could easily get back to the parents and cause offence and upset.

I was not particularly thrilled when DD's friends started having sleepovers at an even younger age. I let her go at first because of the positives in gaining a bit of independence and to be a part of things with her friends, but she'd come back exhausted and the rest of the weekend would be a write off and it would impact her energy levels into the next week.

I then decided it was a blanket no for any sleepovers but I would collect her at 10pm so she could enjoy time with friends then come home. I gave her my reasons and she got it and was fine with it.

It did come to a head with a close friend's birthday party when I said no because of additionally being worried about the inclusion of a child who was known to be violent to others. I gave my usual reason "We don't do sleepovers anymore, she just gets too tired afterwards." But the mum pressed and pressed and finally asked "Is it because X is coming," I said no but she went on and on and I finally said "Well that would be another reason." She then uninvited X and all merry hell erupted.

I found myself then pressured into sending her to appease all of the upset caused and she got injured (not seriously but it left a scar) and was so exhausted it was like she was hung over. After that my nos got firmer. She is mid teens now and does have sleepovers with her best friends but they actually sleep and I have zero safety worries with the two families in question. She has even been on holiday with them.

Follow your instinct. Stick to your guns.

"Parents who don't allow this one specific activity, which literally everyone in this thread who has contact with child abuse victims or a professional knowledge of child abuse vehemently don't allow" is not the same as "being an an anxious parent who doesn't trust anyone", so your "if a = b then c" accusation against me is silly.

There are multiple replies on this thread from people whose parents didn’t allow sleepovers and who developed issues as a direct result of that.

Your response is essentially saying that those people have “made up mental health issues”. Which as I say, is pretty offensive.

Children aren’t stupid - they will soon realise you don’t trust their friends parents, no matter what you tell them to the contrary.

Take your fears and wildest imaginings, and protect your children against those situations arising in their lives.
Do not hand your children over to strangers.
Do not leave them to 'camp out' in the garden.
These things lead to disaster.

There you are. You have my opinion and you can quote me. If you are sensible, you'll believe me. Most of you won't be sensible, but a few will.

@NoSleepOver just to add my own perspective, we are another no sleepover family.
I'm honestly staggered at how many posters seem genuinely unaware of the risks and think that their child being potentially sad is enough of a reason to change major parenting decisions. As a parent I make unpopular decisions all the time in the best interests of my children.

Honestly, however small the risks are (which is debateable) the consequences are so catastrophic that it's just not worth it.

I'd rather take the risk of my child needing support from feeling left out, than support from being abused.

Brushing teeth, wearing bike helmets, eating greens, limiting screen time, there are endless unpopular rules we put in place for our children's best interests, and for me sleepovers are one of those.

And yes, I'm sadly another who experienced first hand what can happen at sleepovers.

I haven't RTFT but you can't keep her in a bubble her whole life and abuse could happen on a playdate, at school, at Brownies or a host of other places and times. Much better to talk to her, without scaring her, about how nobody has the right to touch her body and what to do if anyone tries to do something she doesn't like. Eg tell her you will always come and pick her up from anywhere at any time no questions asked, (easier once she has a phone but you can say to ask the mum or older sister or whatever to use the phone). You don't need to terrify her to teach her bodily autonomy and safety.

No. People have replied saying their parents are GENERALLY over cautious, over anxious etc, and sleepovers was one example of that, and that as a result of that GENERAL over anxiety they have mental health consequences.

Meanwhile, in my minority community, our whole generation grew up not being allowed to go to sleepovers when invited, and as a general rule noone counts it as the source of their mental health problems, and we now as parents also don't allow sleepovers knowing that the benefits far outweigh the harm of not attending. So I am pretty comfortable relying on my actual real life experience, both professional and personal, in saying it's a very long bow to attribute poor mental health as an adult in solely not being allowed to attend sleepovers.

You tell her the truth but at a level acceptable for her age. "You can't have sleepovers because sometimes they aren't safe and mummy has no way to know when they are or aren't safe. Not all houses have the same rules as us so we don't allow them." And if she pushes back or says it's not true you tell her that her not understanding is proof that she's too young and maybe when she's older and can understand then you will consider it.
In the meantime could you suggest she invites her friend to stay at your house? Or they do a sleepover but she comes home to sleep - e.g. she goes, they get into jammies and watch a movie and then she gets picked up before bed.

Yes, there are replies saying that - and there are also responses from people saying how isolated they felt because their parents didn’t allow sleepovers and how upset it made them feel.

I’m not saying sleepovers are the be all and end all of childhood experiences but that if you’re not going to allow them, then you need to try and do it in a way that isn’t going to negatively impact your child in other areas and cause them difficulties socially.

@Hotandbothered222i agree, I also have so many good memories of sleepovers. I also liked seeing other people’s family’s, how they spoke to each other, what they ate, etc. It’s often the quiet moments in a sleepover when you really get to know your friends. Like in the morning when everyone is asleep.

I would absolutely agree with your last paragraph, and in fact isn't that exactly what OP is also trying to achieve in her request for advice here?