Well I've just lost my daughter due to the Supreme Court ruling. s

[Lucelady]

So as not to drip feed she's a Ftm trans person and a universty student.
I've just been called a TERF, JKR supporter and transphobic. We've had four years of peace and understanding with her not wanting any surgery or hormones. She listened to the ruling last week and we chatted it through. The last few days she's been glued to the Internet and her phone. Now it's all changed and her 'friends' have called for action. What that action is I've no idea.
She's stormed out.

We live in the real world, not some contrived fantasy world constructed by social media. Most women don’t hate men, but quite a lot of us have had experiences with men that make us wary around them, especially those men who are trying to make us believe things that we know are fundamentally untrue, in this case, that men can be women, which they can’t, and when we refuse to comply, threaten us and try to intimidate us.

Your comment is a very good example of how reductive this ideology is, ‘give me what I want, confirm my feelings 💯, don’t question anything I say, don’t be factual and if you don’t do these things I will cut you off, abuse and threaten you, and/or kill myself’.

What parents can and should do, is refuse to be intimidated and emotionally manipulated by their children, and if the children feel they have all the answers then quite simply tell them to financially support themselves, rather than rely on handouts from their bigoted, transphobic parents.

@LadyBracknellsHandbagg interesting your first point isn't it - a bunch of women, on a site called Mumsnet, so likely parents and a large proportion being a parent with a man - but saying no to the contingent of men who say they are women means we hate them.

Some do of course, but how much power do those women actually have? About as much as any other woman I would have thought <eyeroll>

Radicalised OP in to believing in science and the law? Wow, what a toxic environment 🙄

Why does OP need to go on about it to her adult daughter though?

‘Pile on’? This is a robust debate, you have accused the women on here of being extremists, are we expected to just accept your judgment with no right of reply? The difference between our opinion and yours is that whether you like or accept it, ours is built firmly on facts and reality and yours on a socially constructed ideology. Go into bat for it all you like, but do not expect the women on here to swallow this nonsense wholesale, as the law and biological facts are with us.

Actually I agree that there’s no point lecturing an adult about your views (or frankly even discuss them in this case). Do you want to prove yourself right or maintain a relationship? What does a good outcome look like?

She doesn't? But when you have an adult daughter who claims to be trans, and so therefore has an opinion on laws that she perceives to have an impact on her, is OP supposed to just decline to have a conversation with her?

That's the way discourse and conversation works isn't it, OP isn't obliged to just agree or stay silent because it's her child.

She can just smile and nod. Why engage?

@MellersSmellers Why do you think DSDs have anything to do with anything? Do you genuinely think they are a third sex, or something? Do you not know that people with DSD are either male OR female? You have have a male DSD or a female DSD. And your chromosomes will show your sex. It really is very straightfoward, and very black and white. DSDs in fact, are sex specific, DSDs confirm the binary nature of sex.

Smiling and nodding is why the country got itself into the position where the supreme court had to rule on "woman" meaning adult human female.

As a woman who is constantly told to smile and nod and just allow things to happen around me, no, I will not be doing that for things that are important to me.

Because it’s her home? And it’s not the dark ages. We live in a democracy where free speech is enshrined in law, where people are allowed to hold and express their opinions in public and especially in their own houses, oh and where those specific opinions are not only protected in law (see the Forstater ruling) but have been confirmed as correct by the SC ruling?

No one is asking you to not argue with your children even if it only has a negative impact. Like everyone you can weigh up what is most important.

Bollocks to that.

Hey?? Didn't you read OP's posts at all? SHE didn't go on about it, and never even brought it up!! Her DAUGHTER went to her and attacked her, out of the blue. OP never even brought it up.

You literally just said OP could just stay quiet? Why bother posting if what you meant was have a conversation if you want, or don't if you don't?

Also I didn't say "argue" did I, I said discourse and conversation. OP's daughter is a grown adult, that should be possible even with differing opinions.

What's to be achieved with arguing though apart from estrangement.

So as not to drip feed she's a Ftm trans person and a universty student.
I've just been called a TERF, JKR supporter and transphobic. We've had four years of peace and understanding with her not wanting any surgery or hormones. She listened to the ruling last week and we chatted it through. The last few days she's been glued to the Internet and her phone. Now it's all changed and her 'friends' have called for action. What that action is I've no idea.

Not sure why you think it's OP that is arguing, it's clearly her daughter who has picked one with her. Sure OP could just refuse to engage but that's not what her daughter wants.

OP is upset that she has lost her daughter though and in that situation avoiding discussions on trans issue would seem wise. You are presumably not in that situation.

I suggest you would have a better relationship with your DC if you stopped criticising their opinions and choices

How does "She listened to the ruling last week and we chatted it through. The last few days she's been glued to the Internet and her phone. Now it's all changed and her 'friends' have called for action. What that action is I've no idea.
She's stormed out." indicate that OP "went on about" anything?

So she should smile and nod and say nothing like a good woman? No. We have rights too.

Expressing a contrary opinion isn’t arguing - it’s discourse. It’s how you come to understand the other’s perspective even if you don’t agree. If the other party (Op’s DD) starts to scream and shout in response to an opposing opinion, feels that her role in the discourse is to convert the OP, that is a failure of the OPs DD - and the university education she’s supposed to be receiving. It does her no favours in life to avoid ever talking about contentious issues with her, or in front of her, DD in case they upset her.

The conversation they will need to have is that it’s okay for both parties to have differing opinions, and it’s okay to say ‘I don’t want to talk about this with you’ - but it is not okay to censor the OP in her own home or to scream abuse at her because DD disagrees on any subject.

ETA and the ‘estrangement’ threat is only one step removed from the ‘suicide’ one. It’s grossly unfair. Any child can choose estrangement from their parents for any reason whatsoever. As a parent you cannot/should not be held hostage by your DCs on this basis. It’s toxic.

What do you mean by “rights”? Nobody has the right to have a relationship with an adult child.

Women have rights and we have the right to an opinion. If the adult child doesn’t like it they can leave and support themself. The home owner/tenant has a right to express an opinion in their own home. The OP was being held responsible for the Supreme Court’s ruling and unless she is actually one of the judges she’s not responsible for that anyway. “Smile and nod” sounds like telling an adult woman she cannot have an opinion in her own home without being emotionally blackmailed by their adult child.

Yep. And the adult child doesn’t have a right to parental support - financial or emotional. Most of them get it because they are loved, of course. But they are not entitled!