Well I've just lost my daughter due to the Supreme Court ruling. s

[Lucelady]

So as not to drip feed she's a Ftm trans person and a universty student.
I've just been called a TERF, JKR supporter and transphobic. We've had four years of peace and understanding with her not wanting any surgery or hormones. She listened to the ruling last week and we chatted it through. The last few days she's been glued to the Internet and her phone. Now it's all changed and her 'friends' have called for action. What that action is I've no idea.
She's stormed out.

@RemusLupinsBiggestGroupie I’d also be curious which feminists you are thinking of as extremists. The most uncompromising feminists I can think of in mainstream discourse are Julie Bindel and Posie Parker (extremely different obviously). But I can’t think of any who publicly advocate death for their opponents, or have been arrested for violent crimes, or killed people for political ends. Whereas there are TRAs in all those categories.

How are you seeing parity here? Who have I missed?

Adults can think and feel what they like but that doesn't make them facts or true, that's just an opinion.

Someone might think the world is flat and truly believe that is right, but the facts say otherwise.

Just because a man believes they are a woman or vice versa doesn't make it true, the facts are that you cannot change your sex and I'm not sure why we are pandering to this nonsense that some people believe that you can.

Pile on as much as you want. I still call bollocks to some of the extremism on here. Enjoy your echo chamber.

What extremist views that trans women are not women. That is a fact.

Ok thanks, byeee 👋

Are there any views on here that you do agree with?

With respect no one is piling on, you have been politely asked a couple of questions. Yet you choose to run away instead of contributing in good faith.
That says everything about you and your agenda and intent.

@TooScaredToBeIdentified thank you for your contribution.
Like I suspect most MNers I'm over 50 and this is very outside of my experience, but I'm trying hard to understand.
One thing I'm struggling with is how black and white things are presented. Yes there are the male and female sexrs, but what about DSD (disorders of sexual difference)?
Likewise gender is, i think , more of a continuum than binary - at least, I wish it would be. Can't we just express ourselves as we are?
I appreciate that if we are to have single sex spaces at all then we need some definition, which we now have, but I don't understand how that impacts on gender self expression? Genuine question.

I have to say you should not be washing your moon ups and underwear in a public washbasin!

Maybe the OP's child feels her peer group are supportive and OP is the one pressurising her.

Um, this is what women and girls do in the ladies. It's part of being a woman. Every woman has experienced this.

You shouldn't have to but if you're caught short, what else do you recommend? Just bleed down your legs?

Two or three people have come back and said they don't agree with you, why are you being so combative?

Like I personally said, you're entitled to your own opinion and others are too - just because they're different to yours it's not a pile on?!

Are you going to respond to any of the questions people have asked you?

Then their supportive peer group can feed, house, clothe and pay tuition fees for them, if they continue to insist on being verbally abusive to their parents for not capitulation to them.

You don't have to say it though, do you? You could not say it .

Parents don't pay tuition fees. Many students pay for their own clothes etc via maintenance grants and jobs nowadays too. Regardless, OP’s child is 21 so may have nearly finished university anyway.

I'm really sorry to hear about your issues.
I have no advice, just empathy.

My DS is also at Uni and identifies as trans but at home we continue to call him 'he' and his birth name. I don't have the balls (🤣) to ask about his intentions and have deliberately not really engaged much on the topic, I don't want it to be a big thing. I didn't even mention the (excellent) court ruling. I just want him to know and feel he has all my love.

All I can say it that it is very, very hard and I hope you can all get through it with you relationship intact. 💐

So where do you think women should wash out their mooncups and/or stained pants??

Like the idea of mum, deciding to be “dad” … and so, I’ll just stop doing the typical mother things, start doing the stereotype crappy dad things. Because crappy dad is my identity. My name will be Brock or Rocky. Leave a kitchen mess, never replenish the loo paper, not do laundry, no meals prepared, I’ll leave pubes on toilet seat, never sew a name tape, or buy clothes, not do anything I do to make child’s life administratively nice, etc.
Instead i’ll get a more time intensive job, I’ll attempt to fix things but never finish the job, go “fishing” etc.

Refuse Mother’s Day, insist they take me to a match or pub on Father’s Day where I dress like a dad - Fake moustache, grab at my crotch, use men’s loo, tell off jokes, maybe get a fake cock & balls for an obvious display in my tracksuit.

Do a dad pantomime … see how comfortable THEY are with my transition.

Interesting reading & understandably various points of view. Personally the comments I don't agree with are the assumptions women who don't wish to use gender neutral toilets etc being described as men hating misogynists. I happen to love men who are genuinely respectful of women & like their company. I'm also unashamedly rather shy around men & I definitely don't want to share a toilet with them. I find it embarrassing.

As gently as possible @TooScaredToBeIdentified , "When I can’t, my subconscious takes control and tries to hurt me. My conscious side has to fight back. It’s hard." sounds very much like a mental health issue, not a physical one.

People with DSDs/intersex conditions have nothing to do with this ruling. They are all either male or female. There are only two sexes, with a very small % of people of both sexes born with genetic disorders that may make identifying their sex a bit less straightforward. However, transwomen are all male, otherwise they couldn’t be trans. No feminist thinks there is a ‘gender binary’. That’s what trans ideology says, with ‘woman gender’ usually being pink, soft, a bit stupid, puppies, kittens, ribbons, and a love of being downtrodden and dominated by men while ‘man gender’ is all sense and strength. Barbie or Action Man. Feminists obviously don’t believe this. Women are not a fantasy in a man’s head. Many feminists don’t believe in ‘gender’ at all, only in biological sex and the variety of human tastes and personalities. A woman who likes football and fixing cars is no less female than a woman who likes makeup and ballet (and of course people of both sexes can enjoy all of these things. It doesn’t change anything about your bio sex. As for why can’t people just be, that’s exactly what feminists want. Like what you like, dress how you like (within the bounds of decency) but accept reality and most of all, stop trying to drug and mutilate children and stop trying to erase single sex spaces for women.

Your posts are really demonstrating why women need protection. Men who threaten suicide because they can't access women only spaces are dangerous. Just imagine if women went around threatening suicide every time we didn't get our own way in something which put other people at potential risk.

I'm genuinely sorry for your struggles and mental health issues, but "‘out me which doesn’t feel moral" just demonstrates that you wish us to all perform in your idea of reality, which isn't grounded in any actual reality, and you continue to demand that your feelings on morality should somehow trump science and law.

By "I’d also caution that the views being expressed on this board are quite polar", you mean the views are binary, like sex.

Kindly, this space, and particularly this conversation, is not for you and your input is not useful.

@TooScaredToBeIdentified

By defining me as irrevocably one way, or the other, nearly all hope has been removed.

What do you mean? Hope that everyone else sees you the way you want to be seen? Hope that you'll one day be a "real woman", i.e. able to bear children etc.?

This is not connected to my physical form. It’s connected to how my subconscious perceives my physical form, which is informed by a reflection from how others perceive me.

Would you say this is more or less hurtful than when as a fat woman, people are rude and hurtful to me? Or when, as a middle-aged woman who doesn't agree with something, I'm called names and basically told my opinion not only doesn't count, but that nothing I say or do is of any worth? I guess I'm trying to ask - if this isn't defined by your physical being, why is your physical being the only part you seem to be intent on changing and working on?

@TooScaredToBeIdentified sorry if that seems antagonistic, I guess what I'm trying to say is that my internal sense of self is very different to what my external shows, and I just have to deal with that. At least your sense of self is covered by the equality act.