So how do I live in the female gender?

[Definitelynamechanged123]

There are 8834 people in the UK who have a Gender Recognition Certificate.
I am one of them.

To get it, I had to show evidence of transition, surgery etc. Lots of hoops

I also had to swear a Statutory Declaration. I had to go to a Magistrates Court and swear a legal declaration in front of a magistrate. It was all very formal.

I had to swear this:

" have lived as a (insert ‘male’ or ‘female’ as appropriate)
throughout the period of years before the date of this statutory
declaration and I intend to live in that gender until death."

This declaration is legally binding. Apparently if I don't follow this, I can be done for perjury.

So...how do I live as a female and live in that gender until death - I have sworn to do this in front of a magistrate.

I was very surprised that so few trans people have Gender Recognition Certificates.

That's bloody offensive.Uncalled for.

I’m so sorry you experienced this. It’s utterly dreadful, regardless of sex/gender (apologies if I’m getting the terminology wrong).

It should be true that everyone deserves to be happy in the body they are born with, but it isn’t & you have been given the opportunity to change that. Enjoy it & be safe, but, as you’ve found, it rattles the majority. There will be many women on here (myself included) who have experienced sexual assault, and many who have been the victim of men pretending to be women & using that as an excuse to dominate women only spaces.

Women have long been marginalised in our society so I’m sure you completely understand why we need to be protective of our spaces. Partly for safety, but also to be able to excel in arenas where there are obvious advantages to being born male (sports particularly).

When it comes to female spaces, however, it is a case of the few ruining it for everyone. Women have a right to feel safe in a changing room or loo and there are, sadly, a minority of trans people who have trampled over that right.

I don’t really see the logic here.,… humans are humans no matter what time, place in history, there are fundamentals that do not change. It is called NATURE.

Masculine and feminine energies are NOT social constructs. They are energetic poles like that which makes the earth spin, and important basis of our ecology.

trans movement however, IS an elitist social construct based on the cultish ideology of transhumanism.

TRANSHUMANISTS believe we can transcend human nature, our biology and merge with machines. These people have no evidence for their religion but they are convinced they will be immortal. And they have a lot of money to manipulate media and culture to accept these bizarre ideas

I said they shouldn’t, not they can’t. It’s antisocial to use facilities that you don’t need but other people do. It’s a simple matter of courtesy instead of selfishness. It’s just part of living in a civilised society, and helping it to stay civilised.

Most of us are able to use ordinary toilets, and we should do so.

That's the point. Genetically it's not possible, and cultural appropriation is deemed highly offensive to people of the culture being appropriated.

I think if the radical trans movement hadn’t insisted ‘trans women are women’, and should be shoe horned into women’s sports and women’s spaces, this situation wouldn’t be.
The facts are the very definition of ‘trans’ requires a superficial transformation to ‘appear’ as the opposite sex- you can’t ’live as’ a woman, you simply masquerade as one By wearing clothes and acting as you ‘feel’ a woman does, but you will never be authentic- and bullying biological women by invading our spaces and sports, and labelling us as ‘CIS, trumps your fear over which toilet you use - most are gender neutral now anyway

I can’t even begin to imagine how difficult it must be to feel like you don’t belong in your body. Life is hard enough to navigate, without additional challenges.

Be yourself, live a happy life. Expect that you’ll be treated differently on account of how you present, but we all are for one reason or another - race, weight, gender, attractiveness, education, job, sex…

Lean into your femininity if that feels good and right. We all have different lived experiences, but living as a woman,
means we are more vulnerable in terms of safety, rights, & are often oppressed, but there are benefits too. Basically, the opposite of a heterosexual man.

As a woman, I also understand why women are upset about feeling like they don’t have a say about spaces where they feel vulnerable in like loos, and losing out in sports, and not having a voice yet again. We’ve had to fight hard for our rights (& are still treated poorly in many aspects), just like trans people are now fighting for their rights. There seems to be so much anger.

We’ve all got our burdens, issues, and challenges whatever our “gender”, or how we identify. The difference comes down to physicality, strength, and being the child bearers. The physically stronger you are the more power you have.

I think the book ‘The Power’ is an interesting read to contemplate this question further, minus the religious aspect of it.

And its about so much more than bloody toilets!

What a strange comment. You’re not that important for trans people to be carefully watching you, picking the right moment to come and address you….. how much time do you think trans people have on their hands.. you likely have a lot if you have been here debating for months / years

Dear god, the drama. Mumsnet don't need to ban anyone. We can just rely on legislation. Which is now clear. Trans women are men, trans men are women. People will be expected to behave accordingly. No one is policing toilets unless there is reason to call the police. Personally I've never seen a trans man that isn't obviously a woman. The hips don't lie. However, if trans men want to continue to use the gents I don't care. That's not my business. Entirely up to the men to sort out.

Picking inbetween the transphobic and "them and us" comments, i've read this thread and your posts in interest.

My wife is a trans woman and I am a cis woman. As a cis woman i have to admit i have felt uncomfortable when a trans woman who doesn't "pass" has been in the same toilet. Women have a right to feel like men aren't invading their space and to feel safe when in a very private, vulnerable space like a public toilet. This has to be respected.

But at the same time i couldn't imagine my wife having to use the mens toilet presenting as she is now and i feel the same about the trans women who don't "pass". They too would feel extremely vulnerable, uncomfortable and unsafe like cis women do and I wouldn't want that for them.

The only solution i can think of to this problem is a third space in a private room - similar to a disabled toilet. Trans women are protected from discrimination laws and if they are going to outlaw trans women using women's toilets then another space will have to be provided - the answer is NOT using the mens!

Be considered incapable of understanding the offside rule?

@ThisFluentBiscuit what are feminine interests?

This is what women do to “live in the female gender”, so you could do that:

Nothing at all.

There is nothing at all that women do to live in the female gender other than remaining living. So there’s nothing anyone else can do to “live in it” either.

As a biological female I have been erased until the recent ruling. I was no longer allowed to be able to breast feed. No this was removed. It was chest feeding to allow a male to live as a female. I was no longer a woman who has periods, this was removed and replaced with people who menstruate. The word ‘woman’ was erased. So try being invisible or erased, try feeling what that must have felt like. Also try having no privacy when changing in ‘female’ changing rooms when there’s a guy with a cock getting changed into a dress next to you. This felt a violation and probably what you’d feel like changing into a dress with your cock in a ‘male’ dressing room. You can never live like a woman because you can never fully experience what it means to be a woman. Just like I can never experience something like having sex as a male. Even if I cut my hair short or use a prosthetic penis, I’ll never know what sex as a man feels like. You can never know what it is to live as a woman. Period.

Why do you feel the need to say ‘cis‘ woman? Isn’t that alone diminishing our female gender?

There seem to be some strange replies here. I was very surprised by the court ruling (what I understand of it.)

My view is if you are born female, you are female. And if you are born male and have transitioned to female, you are now female. Especially if you have a GRC (I wasn’t aware of this before.)

It seems the court is now saying, and I think your point: if you are born male and transition to female, even with a GRC, you are not female. So indeed how can you live as a woman when you identify as a woman and have transitioned to be a woman?

This is very hard, I’m sorry. My best answer is and I know probably not very helpful.. is to live life as you have transitioned (female) and hopefully ignore all this as much as possible.. and know the majority of people do not care what sex you are and you should simply be happy, like all of us 🙏 all my best wishes x

So @notnorman by that logic you should be keen to transition to male. Have you transitioned yet?

The fact that trans women face so many difficulties and still feel compelled to transition shows what a strong internal identity it is, not a lifestyle choice.

No need, just making it clear that i'm not a trans woman too for the purposes of this thread

And fighting to protect what has been so hard to achieve, our rights and importance as women. Look at Trump, and the Handmaids Take situation happening over there rn.

That’s where the anger is coming from I think. People don’t want other people encroaching on their identity. I can see it objectively from all perspectives.

That our thoughts and feelings matter, when often we are made to feel they don’t. Many women will have been dismissed by GPs multiple times, or sexually assaulted/harassed, or intimidated by men, and carried babies, and been the nurturers/childcarers, taken a career break, had periods and hormonal fluctuations, been told they couldn’t do this or that, been told we are too thin/fat/pretty/ugly, treated differently by our parents. Called slutty for sleeping around, or a prude for not sleeping with someone. The list goes on and on. It’s hard to capture and explain all that.

I imagine it’s a very difficult and strange place for you to be in atm. Trying to find your place and acceptance in the world. I think we’re making strides to a kinder, more inclusive and better world if the younger generations are anything to go by. This gives me hope

I agree it’s polite to stand back if someone needs a facility and is desperate. I would do it if someone was bursting for the toilet and I’m sure most would.

However, there is no law or requirement to do so and in fact If everyone left the accessible toilet free then the number of facilities for the non disabled would be diminished by the number of accessible facilities provided.
You see.
Those facilities are factored into the whole calculation of numbers required based on occupancy. So actually not using them means even more queues, especially for women because we are denying ourselves the right to use all facilities provided.

The ‘be kind’ is not exclusive. It’s a ‘be kind’ to all.

Yes, but it's doesn't make them actual women. As in xx chromosome women. Just like I can't be a cat and sleep all day instead of going to work

You really should use the word woman.
Cis woman is really quite a rude term to use to define women

I don't personally interpret the court ruling as saying this. The ruling is simply saying that for the purposes of the equality act the word women refers to biological women.

I still feel conflicted about it, but i understand why it was required. What is the most important now is that trans women are still protected and given a safe space of their own moving forwards because they deserve this as much as biological women do.

Then i'm very sorry i offended you, it definitely wasnt my intention and i was mostly referring to myself with that term so i hope you can see this.