Are We Feeling Liberated Yet? - Trump thread #141

[Spandauer]

King Donald has bigly new tariffs, First Lady Elmo turns out to be ballot box poison and 'Pick Me Girl' Vance is a meanie to the EU.

(But at least the penguins on the Heard and McDonald Islands are wearing suits)

Previous thread:
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5297058-trumpmusk-the-doge-and-pony-show-continues-trump-thread-140

I think Trump is a bit of a loose cannon even for those guys. However, I don't think they - Thiel et al - are particularly averse to crashing the economy and devaluing the dollar in pursuit of a c r y p t o based economy. It certainly suits their general goal of no strictures, no accountability, no regulation.

Put spaces in the word so my post will hopefully not get hidden

Suspect the mango moron wants different industries/companies to grease his palm in order to get private exemptions from the tariffs.
The tariffs are levers installed by him to help him exploit the system for his own benefit.
He has his own version of the ring of gyges where he can get away with whatever he wants and he's going to milk it all he can.

The likes of Thiel, Musk et al are like old-fashioned Marxists in that ..... now bear with me here!.... that they think a neo-feudal order will come about whether anyone likes it or not.

I'm sure they want to be the lord rather than a serf, but the point is that they think this is inevitable.

There was a lot about this in the BBC podcast The Coming Storm series 3.

Trump? I don't think he's really interested in all that. He has a more old-fashioned agenda and I think his bromance with Musk will only last as long as it's convenient for both of them. I think Trump is doing this for his own reasons though I'm sure others are egging him on.

I'm not sure where Vance fits in to this Trump / Musk axis of idiocracy.

Nikkei down overnight by 13% on this time last week.

Trump says it's necessary medicine again. R4 says Deutsche Bank has written to it's clients saying this is the biggest global shock to world markets since Richard Nixon took the US out of the Gold Standard

He’s said he wants monthly tribute from countries in return for lowering tariffs on them. His entire idea, as reflected in how the tariffs were calculated, is to have zero trade deficit with every nation the US deals with.

Ohhhhh he really is an utter twat. I've run out of words for this idiocy.

And yet he completely ignores services, for which many if not most countries including the UK have a trade surplus with the US for

He’s said he wants monthly tribute from countries in return for lowering tariffs on them. His entire idea, as reflected in how the tariffs were calculated, is to have zero trade deficit with every nation the US deals with

Excuse my ignorance, but isn’t that just not the way the economic world works? Wouldn’t everything grind to a halt if he tried to do that? Or am I as much of an idiot as he is?

What's in it for him? If he wasn't (personally) gaining from this carnage he would be taking steps to calm the situation. What's his angle?

World dominance.

European stock markets plunge,

Yes it’s looking like a sea of red! And the Asian markets are being described as a financial bloodbath. Even if he reverses these tariffs this is a shit show.

I wondered about that. The discussion has all been around trade, not services. I wonder whether sooner or later that may change

I imagine the US runs a surplus of services exports too. Maybe that's why Trump is leaving them alone.

I was thinking what goods I own that are from the US and it's next to nothing. An axe, a log splitter, a musical instrument I bought 30 years ago, some second-hand saucepans, and that's it. None of what I buy regularly comes from there.

I honestly believe he's playing an enormous game of chicken with the USA's trading partners.

The US economy is huge, and has relatively low inward investment so he has more latitude for utter recklessness than, say, Lettuce Liz.

I'm going to ask a dumb question- all I post on here I think!
If many countries 'renegotiate' tariffs with Trump would this leave him/USA in a better position? I read 50 countries have started this - who knows if this is true! - I doubt Trump ever has a plan beyond the next 60 seconds of receiving adulation for himself, however could this benefit him/USA?
The second question is - even if it benefits via better tariffs for him, is the crash and repercussions and loss of confidence going to make it ultimately non beneficial for him anyway?
I have only vague economic and trade knowledge so just trying to understand it a slight bit better.
I don't know how leaders go on playing nicey nice with that orange guy - I know it's to support their own country if that's their preference on how to handle it, but I don't think I could do it. Good job I'm in no position to influence anything lol - just watch in horror - daily 😞

I imagine the US runs a surplus of services exports too. Maybe that's why Trump is leaving them alone.

Yes, that's exactly it. The picture is completely different if you include services in the calculations.

The Heard Island fiasco shows very clearly it was never about reality, just an intrinisic urge towards isolationism and protectionism. The "trade deficit" exercise is just his default PR of "Wah wah, we're a victim of all these other bully countries bullying".

Good article by Faisal Islam yesterday:

Trump has turned his back on the foundation of US economic might - the fallout will be messy
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cp34nkj1kv2o

Emperor Bigly the Temendous appears to have forgotten that Goodwil has value. Overlooking this seems to me to be extremely shortsighted. Ask Canada, Bigly. FAFO as they like to say.

Economically deeply naive question, will all the countries except America and Russia not now build on the economic links they already have and leave the USRus out in the cold? What will cripple the world if the USA vanishes into a black cloud for years.

Also, given I already have six dozen and a few over, how many more loo rolls should I buy?

@MsJinks I did see someone remarking on Bluesky that Drumpf had sold $2.4 billion of his stock the day before he announced tariffs and was now crashing the stock market deliberately. That he will then buy stock when it’s fallen through the floor. (Sorry I can't link to where I saw this so I can't confirm it's true)

Add to that - He has wanged on about tariffs since the 1980s. He truly believes that he is right about what he's doing so it doesn't seem likely that he will give up on them at the moment.

He knows/believes that no one can touch him for another 4 years and he's now surrounded by people who won't say 'No', some of whom are also encouraging him to go even further.

But this is at the bottom of all he does:
He's not content to just 'win', someone also has to 'lose'.

@TomPinch

I asked Google AI,:

"does the uk have a trade surplus with the US?"

"Yes, the UK reported a trade surplus of £71.1 billion with the United States in the year to the third quarter of 2024, while the U.S. also reported a surplus in trade with the UK.

• UK's Perspective:
• The UK's Office for National Statistics (ONS) reported a £71.1 billion trade surplus with the United States in the year to the third quarter of 2024.
• US Perspective:
• The U.S. also reported a trade surplus with the UK, with the BEA saying the U.S. had a $15.1 billion surplus over the same period.
• Trade Asymmetry:
• Both countries report trade surpluses with each other, which is a trade asymmetry, meaning the differences between the published trade statistics of a given country and its partner countries' equivalent "mirror flows".
• Goods vs. Services:
• The UK's trade surplus with the US includes both goods and services.
• Recent Data:
• In the second quarter of 2024, the UK had a trade surplus of £4.5 billion ($5.5 billion) with the U.S. in goods.
• Imports and Exports:
• In 2023, the UK imported £57.9 billion of goods from the United States and exported £60.4 billion of goods.
• US Goods Imports from UK:
• U.S. goods imports from the United Kingdom totaled $68.1 billion in 2024, up 6.0 percent ($3.9 billion) from 2023.
• US Goods Trade Surplus with UK:
• The U.S. goods trade surplus with the United Kingdom was $11.9 billion in 2024, a 17.4 percent increase ($1.8 billion) over 2023.

Seems Netanyahu is going to be meeting Trump in Washington (again)…. Do we think bombing of Iran is coming? Of course they wouldn’t necessarily talk about that in a secure room…..

Netanyahu's taking the plans for Gaza on Sea, there will be a special, tremendous, golden Palace for the Emperor of the World and many, gorgeous, golden attractions. Unless, of course, the world comes to its senses and puts them both where they belong, in prison. Not holding my breath for that.

Worth remembering the US constitution was deliberately created and framed to avoid this.

Someone has been sleeping on the job here.

Well things seem significantly worse financially this morning, so that's a thing.

What's he up to with Netanyahu later? Bored of the tariffs now, pivoting back to war? Batshit, all of it.