Can I ask what you do when you say no and someone just ignores you?

[iamnotaprincessbutisortofam]

So this is a thread where I hope people won’t start going on about implausible aggressive responses as I do have to work with this person.

My colleague is almost certainly ND, which is relevant. Also has a young son with quite severe special needs and he is very sweet. We had lunch before Christmas and her son was there and was quite taken with a fluffy cardigan I was wearing and kept stroking it. I didn’t think anything of it and thought it was quite sweet. He also took my hand and started stroking it. He’s only about six so not a problem.

As ridiculous as this will sound colleague has started trying to do the same to me: grabbing my hand and starting to stroke it and tickle it, asking me to tickle her (I know; cringing myself a bit here). She will literally sit next to me and suddenly grab my hand and start trying to stroke it.

It’s starting to make me really uncomfortable, and while I don’t think there’s anything sexual in the overtures for a moment it’s very intimate and even if we WERE in a relationship it wouldn’t be appropriate at work. It’s really embarrassing when she suddenly says ‘tickle me!’ in the staffroom as if it’s something we routinely do: it isn’t.

I’ve been really firm about not doing it - I grab my hand away, she grabs it back, I say stop it, she pouts and says ‘awwww!’ then does it again - I end up having to move away. It isn’t all the time but once she starts trying to do it it’s really, really difficult to stop her.

We’re both female by the way.

We are friends although I do find her a little bit awkward at work as she is attached to me to the point it’s sometimes a bit hard to get any work done, and I really don’t want to cause any trouble, but I really need her to stop with the grabbing and stroking.

I guess I’m wondering how others would deal with it, and also if others understand why I find it so uncomfortable.

It’s not like that as it’s a school so fixed hours.

She doesn’t listen to my line manager any more than she listens to me 🤦🏼‍♀️

It’s probably not the correct thing to do but my gut reaction would be to grip the offending hand hand firmly but not painfully, look her directly in the eye and say “No more, I don’t like it”

If she continued after that. HR.

You are in a professional setting and she’s making you look like a weirdo!

Ok, no problem. ☺️

I know you feel like blatantly spelling it out is awkward and unkind, but if she is ND then that's what she needs.

I have 2 ND children and it's easier for them if I'm just blunt with them, whereas my NT kids would probably be a bit offended if I was the same with them.

You've also put her stresses on your shoulders, thinking about her, her child, the tough time she's had lately etc, but you're important too, and this is clearly an awful situation for you. She's already on a final warning, so it's not like this is the only thing she is doing to jeprodise her job.

I think you need to talk to her about this about of context. So raise the topic at a time she isn't actually doing it. Be calm, but firm, and tell her that you do not like her grabbing your hands, you do not like her stroking your arms, and you will not be tickling her. You really value her friendship, but these behaviours are making you very uncomfortable and she has to stop, immeadiately.

Then if she tries to do it again, push her hands away and tell say "we have spoken about this, stop touching me"

Don't try to sugar coat any of it, direct, calm, factual. If you make the language flowery, add pleases, over explain, then the message will get lost.

Well, she actually has a meeting about another allegation this week so will have to see what the outcome of that is in a way. In a horrible way it could solve the issue which obviously isn’t what I want.

I work part time so I’m a bit isolated in the department as it is. It isn’t her fault in entirety and it’s also mine for not being firmer. But the requests to be tickled are on another level weird!

Well I hate personal space invasion. I wouldnt stand for it. I personally do think there is something sexual in it.
In anycase a grown woman asking you to tickle her in the staffroom is just absolutely mental. I am trying to think what my response would have been if I was asked that. I imagine I would say something like 'what, No, that's a really odd thing to say and if you ask me again I won't speak to you anymore'.

You need to be firmer. "No,it's not appropriate". Keep repeating.

This. WTF! Why have you let this happen more than once OP?

You say it once. When it happens again you go straight above her head. This is beyond crazy allowing any of this just because you think she is ND. It's not for you to diagnose or make allowances for her or anyone else, this is work, how are either of you getting anything done, let alone the pressure on you.

Being ND doesn't give her a free pass to abuse you. Christ on a bike

Yes, I know. I’m sorry, I don’t understand?
I was saying that the OP should speak to HR because this behaviour is extremely unacceptable

These sorts of responses are the ones I’m hoping to avoid @DaNightCreeper

I think I’ve clearly explained that the behaviour is so odd it’s taken me aback, that it’s happened in moments where kicking up a fuss wouldn’t be appropriate, that I have said no (as the thread title says) and said not to, don’t do that, stop it, and it’s been ignored. My question is what to do next now that’s been ignored.

I have had some good suggestions here but if it turns into me and it being my fault in some way because I haven’t gone charging straight to HR I’ll just hide the thread.

Okay it's really wierd but I think you have to take into account she clearly has some kind of different mental capacity. I would do it firmly but kindly. In a similar way that if you were a line manager and had to tell someone they had bad body odour. Just take her aside and explain that it's not appropriate behaviour towards someone at work. You don't want her to feel embarrassed but you need her to stop doing it because it's not appropriate.

I would keep it really focused on appropriate/not appropriate behaviour, rather than about how you feel as that makes it more personal and can complicate it with feelings.

If she then carries on I'd report and ask a manager to explain on your behalf that it's making you uncomfortable and needs to stop. The line manager can then deal with her feelings, rather than you having to deal with it.

Why? Do you think this is acceptable behaviour at work? What if it were a man doing this?
Your values are completely skewed.

My ex punched a bloke at work for stuff like this.

This was years ago and he's dead now but he was a contracted plant operator on sites and they all used to go to breakfast together.

At this one place, they were all sitting in a cafe having breakfast and there was this bloke that kept touching him when he spoke and my ex didn't like it and told him to stop. The bloke kept it up, endlessly pawing at him and even took food off his plate, all dressed up as a joke so my ex warned him out loud in front of the dozen or so other blokes that if he touched him again or touched his food, he would hit him and ...well you can guess that this twonk took that as a challenge and ended up decked so fast he didn't see it coming.

My ex was built like a brick shithouse. His forearms were the size of my thighs so this guy must have been a bit tapped. All the other men said that he had leaned too far back in his seat and fell backwards.

Strange how you can fall on the back of your head but lose your front teeth though. Natures funny like that.

No it's absolutely fine to address something direct with a colleague. If you don't feel comfortable doing it then it's also fine to ask a senior colleague. I wouldn't make a big deal I.e. dont say I've tried 5 times and she hasn't listened.

Just say I asked her to stop and she hasn't. Please can you have a word to explain it's making me feel really uncomfortable.

If then that doesn't work then you could probably file a complaint of harassment.

Yes try not to pull them up in front of lots of colleagues. Maybe in quiet ear shot but not publicly.

I agree with this, actually. It's not OK. And she hasn't listened to you.

I just read that it has happened during a meeting. All kinds of wrong.

She is not a friend, a friend doesn't override your boundaries.

If it happens again- look her in the eye and say "No"
Then "I've asked you to stop touching me"
Followed by "This is not appropriate in a work setting, I've asked you to stop, if it happens again I will need to report it".
Then "I've told you I have tbreport this if it happened again, I now have to report it".

Then go speak to HR. This person is not your friend, and you are not responsible for their choices.

But you've said upthread that it's for you to deal with. It's not, it's for HR. That is literally what they are being paid for.

It's impacting you massively and to the point others are thinking you are having an affair with this woman and yet you are so passive.

Being passive with people like this allows them to carry on. She has other complaints against her too so you are not alone but by doing nothing, allowing her to do this sort of crap has done her no favours.

How you can bear to be touched by her endlessly and just allow it to carry on is weird frankly and in work too. Get to HR before you have a disciplinary too. You must report this to cover yourself, can you really not see that?

If it only happens in moments where 'kicking up a fuss wouldn't be appropriate' then she's obviously chosen those moments to do it because she's well aware you dislike it and it's completely out of order. Despite the fact that she's already in trouble at work. Yet your priority is her not getting in trouble.

Following you around and waiting for you outside the toilets is also completely innappropriate. If she is - in technical terms - mental with you, even though her behaviour elsewhere has put her job at risk, what makes you think she's appropriate in her classes? As a teacher myself, I'm worried about how she behaves with her students.

This^ tactic is perfect if you want to stop someone who is ND. However in the work place you have to deal a bit differently in a more grown up way so I would follow up with an email. In general it sounds like she behaves inappropriately so I think you should consider consulting HR.

I've known someone be sort of similarly inappropriate in work, though across many people, not just one. It was related though to some of their known needs and eventually some people did raise it to their manager. The manager had a conversation with them and gave clear directions as to this being inappropriate behaviour- they would be reminded if it looked like it was happening again. So if your friend can fall under EA/has some needs that should be accommodated then she shouldn't be disciplined immediately (barring being told previously) so I would consider whether the manager or even HR might be not as bad an outcome as you fear, but rather supportive re behaviour in the workplace.
Try to be clear and firm to start with though.
Hope it's resolved peaceably for you.

Previous post nails it too.

I mean: this post nails it.

It doesn’t only happen in kicking up a fuss sort of moments but thinking about it it’s never happened when not at work.

I do find her more normal generally for want of a better word when we’re not at work; I think she’s stressed and tense at work and it amplifies certain behaviours.

Other people would obviously deal with it differently but I can’t say ‘oh yeah I’ll go to HR then’ as I won’t. I guess what I’m looking for is how to tell her to stop and the answer is I just have to be a lot more forceful and firm than is my usual style!