why the effing jeffing is there a Surrogacy board on Mumsnet???

[nevertuesday]

I have been on MN for 15 years or so and only just realised via a post in Active Threads, that there is a Surrogacy board on Mumsnet??

I only read a couple of the discussions there, along the lines of can I buy my baby abroad? has anyone else had a baby via Surrogacy?? so, looks to be a chat board to SUPPORT people try to remove babies from their mothers using cash.

huh?? on Mumsnet?

Every pregnancy is different. There’s absolutely no way to predict whether a pregnancy will be safe or complication free, and it’s entirely unethical to expect a woman, whether she has “capacity” or not, to submit to those risks purely to fulfil the desires of someone else. There’s a reason celebrities and wealthy people aren’t carrying babies for each other. I can’t think of one situation where a socially advantaged woman has carried a baby for a woman less economically fortunate than she is.
Human beings are not commodities. And the use of a woman’s body in that way is unethical.
Taking the surrogate and intended parents out of the equation… surrogacy NEVER centres the needs of the baby. It is a system that creates a baby solely because someone believes they have a right to one. But worse than that, removes it from the only primary attachment it has ever known at birth. We don’t even do that to puppies.

Rather like trafficking for prostitution is the 'prostitutes' choice?
It may be a 'choice' in a nice, cosy, Cotswolds surrogacy clinic, where all parties have shiny teeth and a 4x4, but it's far, far less of a choice in countries where babies are ordered bought by those in this country

Of course it's different.
Dear god....

So you can't see any difference between putting a fertlised egg into the body of the woman who is going to become the child's mother and taking a baby away from its mother at birth? You seem a bit dim.

You think , even if there is trauma of some sort , directly after birth that that will impact a child for their whole life?

Well, yes. Because this is an accepted fact. Because that's what repeated scientific studies on infant brain development have shown. This article quotes many of these studies:
https://learning.nspcc.org.uk/child-health-development/childhood-trauma-brain-development#article-top

Im not against IVF when paid for privately, as that is using your own body, even if its a donor egg or sperm, its not using someone elses body

That's equivalent to saying if you don't want to see nazi's in your street, don't go out. Or if you don't like the chlorination of water, don't drink it...
Or do you think we should be in an echo chamber where we only read, discuss and opine about topics we agree with.
Challenges need to be made, normalisation of madness should be challenged, no matter the 'subject'.

Well that wouldn't be surrogacy as surrogacy involves a baby. Buying a child is presumably illegal in this country.

Well then you need to campaign outside parliament then. Surrogacy is legal in this country. If you dont like it mumsnet ain't going to change anything.

Are you serious? I read the first page of that article. I dont think your understanding what they are talking about re trauma and the continuous development of a human brain.

What are you talking about?
I was responding to the ridiculous point that if someone doesn't like a thread topic, they don't have to read it. My point is that everything can be challenged or disagreed with, unless you think everything should be an echo chamber, and alternative views are not permitted.
My examples showed that

Every birth happens because someone believes they have a right to a baby.

And how do you know how many poorer women use surrogates??

I'm talking about legal UK surrogacy.

Depends how you define mother. Mothers egg and mother raising child sounds pretty motherly to me.

Coercion may still be involved, particularly emotional coercion.

There is lots of evidence that the 9 months a child spends in the womb are crucial to development and impact a child's emotional wellbeing and cognitive development. There's lots of evidence that bonding begins in the womb. There's lots of evidence that being raised away from the birth mother is, on average, harmful.

There is less evidence that this affects babies born through surrogacy and raised with loving parents. We should remember that the majority of children not raised by their biological mother have been through some form of trauma aside from being taken from their mother. There hasn't been much research into whether surrogacy leads to some similar issues, but it's reasonable of people to question it. For me, I would say, why take the risk?

Well carry on then 😊 if your happy to be here amongst these awful monsters who talk about surrogacy

You’ve just proved here that you really, really don’t understand the nuances and complexities and power plays with surrogacy.

You seem to have a very shiny and romantic view of it without any critical thinking

Of course the 9 months inside the womb are important that's why you arent supposed to drink smoke etc etc whilst pregnant. It all impacts the developing child.

Again, what are you talking about?
I am not saying I agree or disagree. My point is about the principle of being able to express an opposing view on a thread without being ignorantly told if you do't like the subject, don't engage. And that views should be challenged.
You may benefit from some comprehension skills so that you don't make an argument where there is none.

Thank you for some common sense

Oh sorry I'm forgetting all the surrogates who have a gun held to their head to go down the surrogacy process legally in the UK. Sure some women may potentially become pregnant and go through birth all solely for receipt of money but I would imagine most women that desperate for money would choose other options to receive money!!

You do realise, the more posts you make to try and justify it, the more evident it is that you are spectacularly missing the key points

I think the original post was in relation to people actually wanting surrogacy threads banned from mumsnet. Why ban a thread that's talking about something that's legal just because they dont like it. Hence the dont get involved comment.

Do you understand anything about developmental trauma and the impact it has on the brain?