PIP for ADHD

[marshmallowmix]

Been in the news this morning as labour looking to slash benefits bills the cost is enormous and growing.

One of the main points discussed was getting PIP for ADHD I did not think this was possible …🤔.

We are taxed more than ever so cuts will abve to be made but surely this is madness giving out PIP for ADHD …there are genuine claims but… they said there are a 1000 new people per day now claiming PIP…so those on the make are going to spoil or for genuine a claims but something is very wrong 😦with the benefits system.

The numbers we are spending on benefits are incredible …let’s see what they slash but cuts are coming under Labour as it’s got out of hand.

Before Covid health related benefits were about 1.3% of GDP, less than other countries across other OECD countries.

Right now we spend roughly the same as other OECD countries. 1.7% of GDP. If the official projections prove correct, by 2028 our health related benefits spending will be roughly the same as the Switzerland was spending back in 2019.

But you carry on demanding a race to the bottom, things should improve fantastically

Which is ridiculous and is a problem.

How to say that you know nothing about ADHD without saying you know nothing about ADHD.

Come on, seriously? “long term adverse effect on everyday activities” is very vague and too many things can fit into that.

i have ADHD and a high pressured job. Does it have long term adverse effects on my everyday activities? It sure does. Is it a disability? No. Does it merit extra help - if the government can pay for a PA for me who’d remind me of everyday activities that would be really nice 😁 Do I as a taxpayer want to pay for this? No thanks

Oh sure. If you say so.

You have fallen into the trap of thinking that because you can do it, everyone else can therefore also do it. ADHD comes in a spectrum of severity. If you have it, I'm surprised you haven't educated yourself and aren't capable of empathy to those more severely affected.

Ok so what exactly PIP is used for in ADHD that actually helps to stay in employment?

Support worker or carer, like government provided PA? and you think it’s sustainable that we need a support worker for every person that suffers with concentration?
it is not sustainable and not reasonable.

sure access to therapy or coaching is good, but it should be provided then through NHS and not PIP.

It is too easy to exaggerate how the symptoms affect daily life - “oh I forget to eat! Oh I can’t hold a job because I’m so so forgetful (rather than not willing to make an effort). I can’t remember to look at a red light when crossing the road”

I have adhd and a high pressured job too. So what? I'm not saying that the government should give me financial support because I can cope without it. However, I'm also intelligent enough to understand that the condition affects people in different ways, and that some people might need additional support in order to function.

You've said that your adhd does have long term adverse effects on your everyday activities. Are you saying that the impact is not substantial and that this is why you don't think it meets the legal definition of a disability? I can only speak for my own experience, and I would say that the impact absolutely is substantial. Tbh, I wouldn't have thought that someone would meet the criteria for an adhd diagnosis if the impact on them wasn't substantial.

Calling adhd a disability doesn't mean that it gives anyone an automatic entitlement to disability benefits. Such benefits should only be given to those who really need them. That doesn't change the fact that adhd meets the legal definition of a disability though.

Do you think everyone with ADHD is the same as you? If you can do it why can’t others?
What issues do you have that lead you to getting a diagnosis? Imagine those, but significantly worse. Would you still be able to cope?

Think of Cerebral Palsy. For some, it’s a mild spasticity in their arm or leg and nothing more. For others, it’s complete physical dependence and intellectual disability. But it’s all CP.

as I just said in the post above it is very easy to not make an effort and blame this particular condition, which is much harder to evaluate from outside.
“I have ADHD so this must be the reason that I can’t hold any job whatsoever” -
sure sure.

”I need help reminding me to eat” - if one needs help like that it’s dementia/Alzheimer/another type of real learning difficulty.
ADHD forgetfulness is not the same level (even I do forget to eat sometimes myself, at least used to)

You are missing out the substantial bit which is a key bit of the definition.

I'd be very careful trying to redefine the definition of disability from the Equalities Act one as it's purpose isn't benefits but accessibiliy and preventing discrimination. It's what allows the reasonable adjustments that many people rely on to work or get a braille version of an important document.

it's useful as so many physical conditions (and mental health) have varying presentations and impacts so one person could be disabled by them and another fine.

There are also lots of things that never get a name. So we can see someone has a significant disability, but it's not got a diagnosis. Lots of people in special schools don't have a name for what they have. If they get full genetic testing they might be told they have a micro deletion.

This is why the definition is the way it is.

It’s much more difficult to fake serious impact on your life from cerebral palsy and much easier to do that with ADHD

fine.

lets separate equality act and PIP then.

“Rather than willing to make an effort”?! Seriously? I now do not believe that you have a diagnosis because of you did you would absolutely know that “effort” has nothing to do with it.

@DodoTired, I'm glad that your adhd doesn't really affect you that badly, and that you're able to manage the symptoms effectively by just making a bit more effort. You are one of the lucky ones.

It's just a shame that you haven't got a bit more awareness and empathy for how the condition can affect people differently.

It is already separate.

Lots of people with disabilities as defined by the Equality Act don't meet the eligibility criteria for PIP.

They already are separate - having a reasonable adjustment at work to help you manage a disability or being able to challenge an employer who is trying to manage you out of a job because they don’t feel like making a reasonable adjustment will not automatically qualify someone for PIP.

Please.

effort can’t change the personal traits of course. But effort to learn techniques to improve their functioning is absolutely required.

therapy and coaching (which I’m sure you know help and are supposedly what PIP is intended for) rely on person making an effort to apply certain mechanisms to cope (especially if we talk about CBT which is efficient).

I don't have ADHD, so I would not presume to know how to answer your question. The tone of your post reeks of disdain for people who do, and claim, even though you claim to have it yourself. Sad.

The problem is that a lot of people will exaggerate their symptoms and impact on their life. It is very naive to think that it doesn’t happen.
also PIP is not means tested and doesn’t require proof what it was spent on - so a person can claim they need therapy and just spend it on living expenses without getting any therapy - thereby not improving at all.

I support adjustments and I support access to mental health (coaching and therapy), but that shouldn’t be administered through PIP.

Who on this thread is saying that there aren’t people who will fudge the system, any system?

But if you check the DWPs own figures, fraudulent PIP claims are reported as nil, whilst 3.9% of credit claims are fraudulent as if housing benefit, an 10.9% of UC claims are fraudulent.

You know how long NHS waiting times are for any kind of therapy, don't you? In my Trust, the waiting list for ADHD assessment for those severely enough affected to be seen is 8 years. So yes, PIP can bridge that by enabling someone to access therapy privately, develop those management skills and get/stay in work. Effort alone isn't enough, many people need support to direct that effort effectively.

Also look up 'empathy' in the dictionary.

But what qualifies you to say that everyone who is claiming PIP for adhd is exaggerating their symptoms. Can you not imagine that someone might experience adhd in a different way from how you experience it? Just because your own adhd doesn't affect you to the extent that you need to claim PIP, and mine doesn't either, you think nobody with adhd should be able to claim it? Regardless of how it actually impacts them?

Yes, it is true that you get chancers who will exaggerate in order to exploit the system. That's true of many conditions. So are you saying that, because some people with such conditions could exaggerate their symptoms in order to claim benefits that they don't really need, those who are most severely affected by those conditions shouldn't be supported either? What do you think should happen to those people?

because it is not fraudulent to use PIP on living expenses instead of therapy.

But it is wrong and not sustainable. So the PIP system is conceptually wrong. Hence it needs reform.

it also doesn’t mean that other benefits don’t need reforms/more enforcement (or rather cost effective enforcement)