Police have just dropped home drunk DH

[MrsJaneyLloydFoxe]

… covered in vomit.

DH went out to work even straight from work, it was meant to finish at 8pm. Woken by DH at 1245 saying ‘come downstairs the police want to talk to you’ . We have three children including a 12 week old baby that was now awake and crying. Police officers said they had found DH vomiting on the pavement in town and had to bring him home. I was so horrified I couldn’t speak.

DH is covered in sick and incoherent. Has vomited again and I’ve left him on the sofa with a bucket.

What do I do? I am so angry. I want him to never do this again. He has a problematic relationship with alcohol - all or nothing - and he has done this in the past and has always said he will stop. This is the first time in about 18 months.

I am heartbroken. I hate him for this and I’m upstairs crying not knowing what to say to him. He showed no sign of remorse. I am sobbing. Please help me know what to say to him and how to handle this.

I don't think you understand what an ultimatum is.

OP needs to say, shape up or we're over. And then follow through if she really means it.
Unfortunately you only get a few chances to show you are serious before the other person sees it for what it is, an empty threat. So probably the partner just doesn't take any ultimatums seriously now.

There is a brilliant thread over in the Alcohol Support group for those affected by alcohol. I’m there under a different name. There are lots of us there who have lived this. Hugs x

I understand just fine what an "ultimatum" is, and I know from experience that they are completely pointless in this scenario.

As others have said, OP can't control DH's desire to binge, so it's a waste of time trying to "lay down the law" or issue ultimatums. It simply will not work. It doesn't matter whether OP intends to follow up on the intention to leave or not, because the "threat" (which is in itself wholly ridiculous) lies in the prospect of OP leaving, and if that thought is not enough to change DH's behaviour, then the actual act of leaving is neither here nor there.

What you are suggesting involves OP laying down a "threat", DH ignoring it, OP leaving, and then DH suddenly having an epiphany and stopping drinking, and I can't see how that is in any way helpful to OP because by that point there will have been at least one more episode like yesterday, and OP and her children will be separated from DH. How is that in any way a solution to the problem?

Again, as PP's have said, what OP does is largely inconsequential because it's down to DH to resolve, so all this talk of "ultimatums" and nonsense about bolting DH out of his own house is just that, absolute nonsense.

An ultimatum is about the OP remaining in a the relationship or not depending on the choice the alcoholic makes.

It isn't to make the alcoholic stop drinking. It can't, it's just they have been told they have a choice to stop or not and made aware of the two different outcomes of their choice.

"Ulimatums don't work" always means the person giving the unlimitum remained in a relationship with an alcoholic who chose drink, after telling the alcoholic they wouldn't stay.

When you give an ultimatum, you have to realise there's a very high chance you will be ending the relationship. You cannot control their choice, only yours.

Completely agree with you @XDownwiththissortofthingX the only time ultimatums give the illusion of having 'worked' is when they happen to coincide with the drinkers own decision to stop. The thought of the loss of the partner may be an influencing factor in the decision, but its rarely the game changer. For a decent person, the thought of the misery they cause should be a greater incentive than the threat of their partner leaving. If its not, they're not ready.

I'm sorry OP.

I have been your husband. I was always the idiot that took it too far. Then I started having a couple in the house at the weekend with DH, which over time escalated to me drinking most evenings, taking it too far too often. I did eventually stop drinking altogether several years ago, I had no idea at the time how bad my drinking was - it took 3/4 years for me to even acknowledge I had a problem. Deep down I did know, because I took steps to stop drinking, but I wasn't able to admit to myself for a long time. Denial is common with alcohol issues and I would expect your DH to be full of it. Stay strong though, rather than forcing him to admit an issue I would just say if there is no issue then just don't drink. He won't be willing to admit anything just now, but he can agree to stop drinking without that acknowledgement.

If its the first time he has done it in 18 months I doubt very much you are going to get him to AA, unless he is already with AA and this was him falling off the wagon?

Could it be a one off?

Could it be a one off?

Given OP says he’s done this in the past and has “always promised to stop”, no it’s not a one off.

He's truthfully got little more control over his behaviour than you have, drinking is an addiction no matter how often it raises its ugly head. And in the kindest way, you can't make him stop drinking. All you can do is control the impact this has on your and your children's lives. Get yourself to an Al-Anon meeting and get yourself some real life support. As a PP said, it's no good issuing ultimatums to anyone other than yourself - and it's OK to say to yourself the next time this happens, you're gone. You cannot keep exposing your children to this behaviour and normalising it.

You can’t change this and you didn’t cause it. You can only change your response to it.

How old is he?

Do you actually think he's an alcoholic?

When I was younger there were a few occasions where I went out straight from work and ended up being sick from alcohol - where I hadn't had dinner and it's early when you start so you don't realise how long you've been out. Could this just be that??

If he is going 18 months without a drink, is that really AA territory?

I'd be pissed off with him for sure, and so embarrassed by the police element, but not sure I'd class him as an alcoholic for binge drinking once every 18 months.

I don't think some get it here, it the complete lack of control over when to stop that's the issue, I drink, I've drunk too much, I've been sick but not to the point I've lost my phone, wallet and the police needed to take me home - it's know when enough is enough that's the problem.

If you can't stop once you've had a drink, eg if you can't put a lid on wine to keep for the next day or say no to a colleague asking do you want another drink then you have a problem even if you units drunk on average over a month aren't necessarily problematic.

Speak to al anon, and it's ultimatum time, no grown adult should need bringing home because they are drunk,

I'd be bloody angry with him too! Hopefully he'll feel remorse this morning once he's slept some of it off. I honestly don't know how to advise you to handle it though.

If you've given him ultimatums before then I guess they haven't worked because you haven't followed through. More ultimatums are pointless if you don't follow through. Raging is also pointless.

He needs to not be around people who are drinking, so that means not doing any of the things that he has previously done that have led to him getting in this state - no more going on work nights out for a start.

So he needs to choose, he needs to choose not to go out of an evening any more with people who drink - if he's not prepared to make that choice then just leave. Talk to him calmly and make plans for you and your kids for if you do end up needing to leave. You might find your calmness has more effect than you anger - he will know something has changed in you.

Hello OP. I was in your position nearly 4 years ago but it was all quite secret drinking. He experienced SA as a child and has never dealt with it. I knew something was wrong, we had lots of arguments about his behaviour but my husband ended up having a complete breakdown on holiday with friends and their children. We had 2 DDs, one of whom was 7 weeks old. It was terrible, I lost friends as a result, one who had been friends with me for over 20 years. That was what we call now rock bottom and we had to go through this in order for my husband to wake up and seek help. We went through months afterwards of him relapsing, arguments, tears. It was awful but there was some hope there.

3 years on and we are muddling along but it’s far from perfect and I am not sure we will ever get to a healthy marital state again. But he is a great dad, my kids adore him and whilst they are young I will persevere. He is still sober. Didn’t find AA helpful but tried it for a while. He is an atheist so found the god angle difficult but has been going to a men’s mental health group which he really likes. I am sat with some resentment about the whole ordeal which I am trying to work through. In some ways I am proud of him, in other ways I find him so weak. It’s a constant conflict in my head and might be more of a reflection of me and what I experienced as a child (father with severe MH problems).

My advice would be to find an outlet but not to share with lots of your wider circle. Although people say they are there for you, my experience was that I became a source of pity for my closest friends and they started to leave us out of any social gathering which just exacerbated the loneliness. My best friend lives in another country and so was removed from the actual drama on the day but has become my saviour and therapist.

I am not sure if my post will give you optimism or make you despair more. Last night should be a rock bottom for your husband but time will tell. Be prepared it may not be, in which case was it for you? Sorry you are going through this, you have to prioritise your mental health as you are the only functional parent for your children at the moment. Sending much love xxxx

If this has happened before but it's not a regular event he doesn't need to go to AA. .. (only on Mumsnet!) but you're absolutely right to be angry with him as now you have another child to deal with abs that's not fair. If he's so bad the police bring him home he could have been run over, fell in a river etc. Very irresponsible
If he acts like a child. Ground him

Stop it. It's not helpful.

Morning @MrsJaneyLloydFoxe

I lost a partner to alcoholism at 51, I know how horrendous it is. Don't let anyone tell you that this isn't serious, that it's just a blip after 18 months or similar - the sort of relationship to alcohol that your husband has is always serious and always detrimental to those around the drinker. For you to be going through this with young children including a little baby is ghastly. We know the damage experienced by children of alcoholics - it negatively affects their whole life.

Those who have posted before have nailed the key things you need to be thinking about - mainly that you didn't cause this, you can't control it and you can't cure it (the 3 Cs of alcoholism.) Ultimatums don't work, because the person with the alcohol problem has to want to stop for themselves, not because they fear particular consequences. Those afeared consequences can be part of what supports the decision to stop, but they can't be the main incentive. Someone at Al-Anon said to me years ago that you can put someone who genuinely wants to give up drinking in a house full of alcoholics and they'll still stop. It'll be harder, which is why there is the need to remove 'temptation', offer targeted and constant support and so on, but if the person does want to stop they will, regardless of circumstances. Conversely, she said, you can give all the support in the world to the drinker and if they still want to drink, they will find a way. This was definitely the case for my late partner. Those around her did everything possible, in the end we had to detach with love as they say. She died within 8 months, and she wasn't what everyone thinks of as a typical alcoholic, she was a successful professional.

There are some great people on the Alcohol Support threads, partners of alcoholics who have been where you are, adult children of alcoholics, as well as recovered alcoholics who are very wise and honest. I'd head over there for more specific support from those who will know best how to help you. If you don't want to start your own thread yet there's a great thread called something like 'Support for People Affected By Someone's Else's Drinking." That might be a good place to start. I think you'd benefit from some informed advice before you even start to think about how to address this with him, that might stop you getting into a mire, because this stuff is very emotive, especially when you have someone you fundamentally love in front of you, who appears vulnerable, but who has caused you so much worry, sadness and anger.

Look after yourself and your children first and foremost today, and in the days going forward.

Exactly. If her husband was a student who'd taken it too far on a night out I'd not be so quick to assume he's got a drinking problem. At a young age you perhaps haven't worked out your limits, and likely don't have any responsibilities that will be affected.

But to behave this way, coming home escorted by the police covered in vomit, 4 1/2 hours after finishing work - to your wife and weeks old baby and other children is completely different. That has a huge impact on other people - your wife and young dependants. God only knows how he behaved in front of his colleagues. He could be risking his job by doing this, risking even more to his family.

Alcoholism is defined by a person whose drinking causes persistent negative impact on their life, but can not stop.

Well done for noticing and cancelling his cards.

Pp advice on AA sounds good

If you've given him ultimatums before then I guess they haven't worked because you haven't followed through.

By definition, ultimatums that are "followed through" are also ultimatums which haven't worked.

It depends on how you define the "problem". If you view the problem as his drinking then you're right, following through on an ultimatum likely won't achieve anything. But if you view the problem as the OP is married to a drunk and doesn't want to be, then leaving would indeed be a solution.

Really it's the difference between an ultimatum and a boundary. An ultimatum is a threat aimed at a particular person with the aim of changing their behaviour. A boundary is an escape plan, a means of protecting oneself from other peoples behaviour when what they're doing is causing you harm.

My violent, abusive father and my brother, who is exactly the opposite, were/are both alcoholics. My darling brother, thank the gods, has now been in recovery for 18 months, a stage I thought we would never see as he was almost at death's door from nearly two decades of drinking by the time he saw the light. I have long experience with support groups and have learned a great deal: chief of which is this.

You didn't cause it. You can't control it. You can't cure it.

You can only control what you do, and your chief objective is to protect yourself and your children. Only you can work your way around how to do this, but there is excellent support available out there.

Adult children of alcoholics, plus the Forward Trust, are wonderful for offering support to the families of addicts. I'd recommend getting in touch with them and undergoing the brief intensive group therapy sessions they offer.

I'm so sorry. Addiction is a terrible blight which ruins the lives of all around it

"(only on Mumsnet!)"

My thoughts exactly @Maddy70 .

Anyone who can go 18 months between binges is not an alcoholic. He's an idiot who can't hold his drink.

I seriously doubt if AA would make any difference.

I'm so sorry.

Today he won't be in the best state for a conversation so use the time to plan, prepare and to connect with your children, they may be frightened and know something's wrong.

Google 'how to talk to your partner about their drinking ' and you'll find lots of videos and articles.

Encourage him to drink lots of water and take painkillers.

Please ensure from now on you have rock solid contraception.

You know ultimatums don't work.

Drinkers are addicts. Their main relationship is with their drug of choice and nothing else matters. Nothing. Not newborn baby, not wife who's just given birth, not their older children.

So many women here whose childhoods were blighted by alcoholic binging parents. You have a hard choice to make.

Do you have supportive family you can go to with the children?