Kyle Clifford - does it make you think the death penalty in some cases might be right?

[mids2019]

Read about Kyle Clifford's crimes and although for most of my life objected to the death penalty actually found it difficult to find reasons in this case not to have it. I really just couldn't think of justification for keeping the guy alive as there. Is no hope of redemption, reformation or education leading to a man being able to renenter scoiety. We would be in a position of keeping someone alive for pets face it the ideological reasons we don't believe it is rig h for the state to forcibly take a life.

Maybe my mind might change but reading about that blokes crimes I think sometimes you do forfeit the right to life.

I'll take a life of celibacy if it means we are all safe

Hardly a ‘life’ at all.

1. Women can shoot too, y'know, drive tanks, the rest of it.
2. If Russian women also reduced their birthrate of sons, there would be no Russian invasion. It's men who tend to start wars. Even Thatcher didn't start the Falklands War, she just finished it.

Really? You don't think that life can be good without sex?

It wouldn’t be complete without romance, partnership, sex. It would be entertaining enough but lack love and desire. Just a bit dull. Sex is the ultimate pleasure.

Plus the lack of responsible father role models

Which women are blamed for.

their every need being met by their mother

That was always the case. Men since forever have considered themselves too good to clean the floor if there's a woman to do it for them.

And to think I’ve been accused of eugenics on this website!

There are, for sure, hard cases which challenge our thinking. But ultimately,
you either think the state committing murder is OK in a civil society or it’s not. I don’t think it is.

There was "absolutely no doubt" the Birmingham 6 did it. There was "absolutely no doubt" the Guildford 4 did it, or the Maguire 7, or Judy Ward, or many others who had to fight to clear their name.

So no, the death penalty has no place in any civilised society.

Peadophiles makes them sound like they love small green veg.
Paedophile leaves one in no doubt as to their evil predilection.

Axel Rudukubana was 17. The principle that people should be executed for crimes committed as children surely
can never be supported. No matter how evil
they are

He is a disgusting and violent man but then again there's many a man in high positions of power who are just as violent and disgusting.

I do not support the death penalty in anyway.

I decided not to have children at all because I refuse to bring a girl into a world in which she faces male violence and I refuse to contribute to the problem by birthing a boy.

Well your extreme views are all very interesting @selffellatingouroborosofhate but you're being deliberately goady enough for me to think you are trolling - so I have reported your earlier post about aborting all male foetuses.

I have this amazing tool called a Hitachi Magic Wand. The HMW gives me orgasms, unlike men. The HMW doesn't make me pregnant, unlike men. The HMW doesn't give me recurrent cystitis, unlike men. The HMW doesn't neg me, coerce me into sex I don't want, or leave piss on the loo seat, unlike men. The HMW doesn't make me feel trapped in my own home and unable to relax, unlike all humans.

What does "romance" even mean? I did try walking along the beach with one ex because that activity is classed as "romantic", but I didn't like it. I got sand in my shoes, I got cold, and he walked too fast for me to keep up.

Just because you’d have been a shit parent doesn’t mean we all are

I cannot remember how many suicide attempts Ian Huntley made, certainly two or three. He'd probably have ran happily to the gallows if he'd been sentenced to it. Instead he's been repeatedly attacked in prison and I think lost sight in one of his eyes and probably lives each day experiencing some kind of fear and anxiety. Not something he (or anyone in their right mind) would ever have chosen but to me far better than him getting his own way and a way out.

Does the Hitachi Magic Wand tell you it loves you? Does it look after you when you’re unwell? Can you discuss modern history leading up to the events of WW1 with the Hitachi Magic Wand, like I did with DH last night? Can you admire its muscular arms as it stands at the sink and washes up? Will it mourn you when you die?

Because if so, that’s a fucking bargain for £50(?)

Oh good, this threads going to turn into the MN motherhood Vs child free life argument like so many others do.

An advanced search will show that I have a posting history of at least several months, including on Relationships and FWR. This is not consistent with trolling.

I'm going out of my way to "think the unthinkable", if only to try to get people to intentionally say "we understand the consequences of refusing to cross this line, we have thought about it and challenged that taboo, but we still refuse to cross it". Have you challenged yourself here? Have you asked yourself how much male violence do women have to tolerate before we say that the principle of treating boys equally to girls in utero is no longer sustainable and has become, to use a modern term, a "luxury belief"?

Reducing the proportion of men in the global population would reduce the risk that male violence poses to women and girls. You might abhor my suggested means, and TBH I expect that kind of reaction, but nonetheless it would work.

I am interested to see what other ideas people have for reducing male violence to the same low level as female violence in the face of a prolonged and organised programme to radicalise men into domestic terrorists against women. Failure to tackle this condemns women and girls to unpersonhood. How much do you expect us to take?

No, I’d rather he was kept alive so that we can study him, scan his brain, take whatever samples necessary and subject him to hours of interviews. I want to know what made him tick so that we stop the same thing happening again.
Of course, none of that will happen, but wouldn’t it be amazing if we could identify the gene/defect/chromosome/influence that made him such a monster?

Most parents of murderers are "good parents". You cannot control how your kids will turn out. Again, #notmynigel until it is, and then the parents are asking where they went wrong.

Oh poor hard done by Levi, convicted on perfectly legal circumstantial evidence. Do you seriously think there's even a chance he might be innocent? What about his other victims, Amelie Delagrange, Marsha McDonald and Kate Sheedy, are you worried he might be wrongly imprisoned for their attack and murders as well?

"I love you" is three cheap little words that come as easily from the mouths of liars as from faithful husbands. It is a phrase that I am happy not to hear.

Does my HMW leave me to look after myself when I'm unwell because it's too "busy" gaming? Does it ignore me wilfully when I speak to it? Does it scroll its phone whilst I wash up? Does it dump me via text?

It's naive to assume that, because you got a husband that treats you like a person, the rest of us will get one.

"Happily ever after" is a luxury belief.

But women don’t want that. You might be happy for your main relationship to be the Hitachi Magic Wand, but most of us aren’t. We want a sexual and romantic relationship with a flesh and blood man. You’re underestimating how much women value sex and romantic attachment, probably because you’re of the view women are less sexual. A piece of battery operated plastic cannot compete with the warmth of a human being. If I had little or no prospect of a relationship with a man, and no romance in my life, I would be depressed.

No they aren't. Extreme violence in adults is correlated with early exposure to violence in childhood. Of course there are exceptions.

I'm talking about verdicts based on circumstantial evidence as a class being inherently less reliable than ones based on direct evidence, in a thread where posters are suggesting a sliding scale of guilt as the basis for reinstatement of the death penalty and, in doing so, contradicting the core principle of jury trials. I am not saying that any specific individual who is currently in jail should be acquitted or released.

I am frankly absolutely sick to the back teeth of people misinterpreting defence of the criminal trial process as sympathy for murderers. Every time we have a thread about trials, someone will make this misinterpretation.