Kyle Clifford - does it make you think the death penalty in some cases might be right?

[mids2019]

Read about Kyle Clifford's crimes and although for most of my life objected to the death penalty actually found it difficult to find reasons in this case not to have it. I really just couldn't think of justification for keeping the guy alive as there. Is no hope of redemption, reformation or education leading to a man being able to renenter scoiety. We would be in a position of keeping someone alive for pets face it the ideological reasons we don't believe it is rig h for the state to forcibly take a life.

Maybe my mind might change but reading about that blokes crimes I think sometimes you do forfeit the right to life.

How can you be sure that a conviction on one count of child murder is somehow safe?

I'll accept that clear evidence of multiple murders will be hard to falsify or make lab mistakes with.

Can't be that bad, they ate overcrowded.

Most criminals think they won't get caught. Men aren't thinking "I fancy some time inside, I'll commit a crime".

You wouldn’t have your daughter if all men were aborted. You are bonkers!

So what was the point, he could have been out there enjoying life, instead he's locked up and in a wheelchair was it really worth it.

And my sons matter as much as your daughter. My sons are not violent. Jesus.

I decided not to have children at all because I refuse to bring a girl into a world in which she faces male violence and I refuse to contribute to the problem by birthing a boy.

Disagree, with cctv and DNA and allsorts of things available today you've got to think the opposite. I will be caught.
Expect to be caught then make the choice to go ahead.

Again not that bad as there is always a choice to go in or stay out.

Not surprising to see a Not My Nigel pop up on a thread highlighting male violence against women and girls. Happens Every Time.

It's not all men, it might not be your men, but it's too many men and as a sex class generally and statistically, men are a/the problem.

So your answer is the extinction of the human race?

#notmynigel says every mother. "Not my Alex", said a woman in Southport who is now wondering what she and her DH did wrong. "Not my Kyle". "Not my Wayne, he's a respectable police officer", said Mrs Couzins.

They have access to the internet, which means that they can consume the bilge that floods out of the manosphere and ever-more-violent porn. You have no idea whether your son will turn out like Kyle. You cannot control that outcome.

Agree. I don’t think we can ever reduce male violence to zero. I think all we can do is limit it as best we can, and not make excuses for it. It’ll be an uncomfortable process but worth it.

1. Criminals, with the exception of those in organised crime, aren't known for being smart.
2. Men are generally more willing than women to take risks because they have a "it will never happen to me" attitude. This attitude affects their assessment of whether they will be caught.

I'll be happy when men commit violence at the same low rate that women do, but in reality we are going backwards on this. Hence my deliberately OTT suggestion of just aborting boys in early pregnancy.

I agree.

I’m willing to bet 100 years ago, before porn and computers and Andrew Tate, domestic violence was still overwhelmingly perpetuated by men. Those things have made it worse - but I think men are inherently violent (or more likely to be). They have to be, because that’s why they’re the hunter gatherers (or used to be), and if Russia announced it was invading the UK tomorrow, the infantry would be male. So male aggression can be useful and constructive but my belief is that when it isn’t channelled correctly, it goes wrong. Men aren’t supposed to spend all day sitting on computers - they need exercise, fresh air, physical challenge. Our increasingly indoor lifestyle is creating a pressure cooker situation with men. Plus the lack of responsible father role models, and their every need being met by their mother giving the impression women are there to wait on you.

So if an innocent friend or family member of yours was the one in 500 convicted and sent off to the gallows you'd shrug and say "oh well. Better safe than sorry"?

Who would defend you if Russia invaded?

It wouldn’t happen. I said 1 in 500 murder trials (I would guess) end with a wrongful conviction if that, and out of those convictions, only a very tiny number would be eligible for the death penalty. It would be stunningly rare for the wrong person to be put to death.

So now you’re talking about unproductive / useless eaters, eh? Just keep showing that fascist hand of yours.

What on earth are you talking about?

Why would a tiny number be eligible? Thought you wanted anyone found guilty to swing?

@selffellatingouroborosofhate where did I say my sons matter more? I didn't. It's just horrible that some people think the world would be better without them even though they have never hurt anyone. I get that as a class men commit more violence but demonising children for being male is not the answer. If anything boys who grow up being constantly told they are the bad guy are more vulnerable to radicalisation by the Tates of the world.

What women in the US have found is that, in oil towns where a lot of men move in and the male:female population ratio gets skewed towards men, the men's behaviour towards women becomes worse. When the women leave and move to urban areas, they skew that ratio towards women and the men behave better towards women. This runs counter to what Robert Heinlein predicted in The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress" and is probably because the oil town men see the women as a scarce resource and adopt the kind of behaviours we associate with possessive men and gang rapists, whereas the urbanite men are surrounded by a cornucopia of women and don't have be possessive or willing to take by force.

There will always be women who conceal pregnancies or refuse to abort sons, so we wouldn't die out if the sex ratio skewed heavily towards women. We'd have more paternal half-siblings because men would probably father children with more than one woman, but I don't foresee that being a problem. Sure, more women would be single, but as a single woman myself I'll take a life of celibacy if it means we are all safe.

There will always be women who conceal pregnancies or refuse to abort sons

You approve of the abortion of blameless male babies but you don’t think Kyle Clifford should be treated the same? Alrighty then.