Looking for advice and tips please. How to support ‘gentle parenting’ when children visit us?

[Merie1980]

DS & his partner (DiL) are committed to ‘gentle parenting’ her three children.

Fairly new for us as they met a year ago when the children were 2, 4 & 5.

They visit us quite frequently and we are wanting to support their approach.

I've noticed and DiL has discussed that the DC’s are not put into situations beyond their level of understanding and behaviour ( I think I have that right) so for instance they wouldn't play in our garden because there are too many dangers.
DiL and DS are very good at preempting with explanations and time for the children to think and act, so ‘ think about how far it is to the ground, before you jump off’.

Any tips please for when they come to us or when we take them out? Or maybe I'm overthinking and rules apply in our house.

This reminds me of visiting my gp’s in the ‘70s and following my gf around, “helping” and learning the name of every plant and insect, how to drive cattle, milk a cow, and dig. My cousins weren’t allowed to get dirty and instead had to sit in the house colouring and playing with jigsaws. I felt so sorry for them. Still do.

When my time time comes I'll smile and nod my head then look after DGC as I see fit

To me what you did was normal parenting for a young child

Three more children who are going to spend their adult lives with mental health problems. If children are never put into situations where they have to think for themselves, to take risks and overcome challenges, how are they meant to develop these skills?

Also, the leading cause of accidental deaths in children is road traffic accidents, so perhaps you can ask them if they are still happy to put them in a car, given this knowledge?

I think people are confusing gentle parenting with permissive parenting. With gentle parenting there's a level of trying to avoid situations you know are going to end up in meltdowns, where many parents end up feeling the need to shout at children in frustration.

For example, taking a 2 year old to a posh restaurant and expecting them to sit quietly for an hour would probably be stupid for most toddlers, so you'd avoid that situation as much as you could. If they did start messing, lots of parents would take their frustration out by telling the child off which is unlikely to have an effect on a child of 2 who has no clue what a posh restaurant is.

It seems that DIL is viewing your garden in this way? She thinks there will be hazards there that young children will be drawn to, and the children going for these hazards would ultimately lead to them being told off.

I can sort of under elements of that if I've interpreted it correctly for a child of 2, but from about 4 most children should be understanding boundaries put in place appropriately.

Gentle parenting is supposed to be about avoiding screaming at children when they've done something "wrong". A child of 2 has no idea what the difference between a wall and a piece of paper is, so shouting at them for drawing on a wall is a waste of energy. You have to teach them that paper is for drawing through repetition, rather than shouting and expecting them to understand.

Those poor kids. I'd be reporting my batshit crazy son and his wife to SS, because it appears this described gentle parenting is just cruel.
Take them to Go Ape. Feed them shite food, let them get covered in mud, teach them to say ' fuck, fuck and thrice fuck'

Is this why schools are full of hellish entitled teens according to the teacher threads?

Also agree with op this smug labelling of
parents gets my goat. Most normal parents are kind and don’t yell all the time but teach kids how to behave and fit in and wear appropriate clothes. I don’t think this wet approach is preparing them for the world.

Also I would be extremely concerned if I had an adult child in a relationship like this. Three little kids?! Really not ideal.

A child of 2 has no idea what the difference between a wall and a piece of paper is

That's just not true. My just turned 1yo understands paper is for scribbling on. He's learnt that from watching us and his sister. He sometimes misses and accidentally scribbles on the table next to the paper, but he's clearly aiming for the paper. He's never attempted to scribble on the floor or walls, and we'd tell him to stop (not angrily).

I think a big part of the problem is op's dil, like many gentle parenters, doesn't understand children and how they think. Children like to know what they're supposed to do and what things are for. They love helping with jobs.

So much gentle parenting seems to be "letting them learn the hard way" which seems quite cruel actually. Like letting them not wear a coat on a walk when it's cold and rainy, so they learn how uncomfortable it is. How long are they going to be wet through for? Seems like a cruel and unusual punishment

Agree Robin . Even as teens they need guidance. Dd at 14 was invited to go on holiday with her friend. She nearly didn’t go as she would miss a crappy little local festival. We advised her strongly to go got back having had an amazing trip abroad saying she couodnt believe she even considered missing it for the festival (at which it rained!). Would a gentle parent have let her make that decision so she massively missed
out?

That's just not true. My just turned 1yo understands paper is for scribbling on. He's learnt that from watching us and his sister.
Well yes, a child of 1 then. My point is the same one you've made - they don't know until they repetitively see/try it. A big white expanse of wall can look the same as a big white expanse of paper until they learn the difference through observation and practice.

There are plenty of parents who would scream at children for drawing on walls thinking they'd done it to be deliberately naughty, not accepting that toddlers are stil trying to figure out how to behave by copying behaviours around them. They get it wrong plenty of times at that age and need to be redirected, but it's not naughty.

My main issue with gentle parenting is the blinking length of the explanations about feelings, thinking etc.
The child will hear "think... beck" and none of the middle part.
Save your breath, gentle parents.

Hi op it may be worth bearing in mind that these are not your grandchildren and they are not your sons children. He has only known them for a year and it is very very quick in my opinion for him to move in and start actively parenting them. They have a dad and I presume two sets of grandparents already. Your son has no parental or legal responsibility to them and at such a young age I would be really concerned that if this very new relationship ends these kids lives are going to be very disrupted at a very young age when their parents have already split up. If I were you I wouldn’t be thinking about how to parent these kids I would be wary about your son taking on a big family of young children with a woman he only met a year ago and how this is all going to pan out.

There are serious issues if a 5 and 6 year old can't be trusted to not draw on the walls etc

Yes, absolutely. Everyone’s judgement seems very off here.

Do you think it's a case of DIL worrying that they'll do the wrong thing at your house and draw on the walls or waste all your seeds?

It sounds like they're pretty free and easy at their house so maybe she's just worried about them not behaving at yours and is trying to control that in her own way by asking you not to give them any opportunity to do things they shouldn't.

I think DIL has far too low expectations of her kids though, kids thrive on knowing the rules and having a routine. I think this is very confused gentle parenting, as is so often the case it's been misinterpreted and poorly executed IMO.

Don't get the dangerous garden thing; spend time with them in the garden and educate as you go.

If they're at an age where they eat anything they mustn't be there unsupervised for any time. Fine if supervised. If they know there are things that mustn't be touched/ eaten, teach them further.

Worms not a massive issue; foxgloves are.

I do see myself as a "gentle parent" and I teach children with asd, adhd and semh.

"Talk to children so they'll listen and listen so they'll talk" are excellent books (one is a younger version and one for older kids.)

My hidden chimp is also v good but has a work book like element, so may be best for the parents to use.

There would need to be some expectations

Brilliant

It's just about setting out expectations but also not loosing your own temper when they do. Calmly removing and explaining why (oh dear, you are doing something unsafe so we've had to stop.) and then sitting with them. Snack usually helps, cuddles, reading a book together and then chatting about reasons when they're calm. (They won't take anything on board otherwise.)

With the pens DS/DiL were apprehensive that the DC’s would just draw everywhere as they are not ready to listen to the rules about drawing on the paper.

Yes that's bonkers and why washable pens/ crayons were invented.

Model model model.

Exactly. The older rwo are 5 and 6 and at school of course they know not to draw on walls.

I feel sorry for the 5 year old. Are they not at school? Surely they would love to be in the garden and plant seeds etc and would be good for them! I don’t think it’s fair to restrict a 5 year old based on the understanding of a 2 year old. If there are 4 adults and 3 kids the best thing is usually split them up and give them individual attention. Especially the eldest of 3.

Wow those kids re going to thrive at school and life.. not.

Sorry OP I think you are just going to have to go along with this crazy stuff and be there for your DS when he's had enough.

I don't think it's crazy to think a 3 year old would need to be supervised with pens.

My 3 year old wouldn't need to be supervised but she's a very well behaved girl and at age 2 we did have a wall-drawing incident because I thought she was old enough to be left alone and was wrong!

Chalk to draw in garden if there is a path? Homemade playdough to play in the kitchen? Drawing etc is really important to build fine motor skills. Jumping in the garden/mud kitchen? Bug searching/bird feeding/spotting? Water colours in kitchen? Making pizza/cake etc. All these things are good preschool activities. All kids need to learn to measure and follow instructions.

What I'm reading is:

Your son's girlfriend often brings her three young children to your house. They behave poorly. Your son and his girlfriend have told you a lot of confusing blather about how these children are being brought up. You're now here asking us to explain the confusing blather so that you can modify your own behaviour in your own house when your son's girlfriend's children visit.

Who are you scared of, and why?

Absolutely this! Children learn so much by doing Resilience to try again if unsuccessful and a sense of achievement when successful. The gentle bit surely is to not shout if the child doesn’t get it right but to explain and model a better way.
Saying that, I sometimes shouted at my kids but we had loads of fun painting, water play, making Christmas decorations etc. The house was often messy but it was a very happy home and my adult kids wax lyrical about it (rose tinted specs, it wasn’t perfect) and have privileged me with caring for their dc.
Every day, rain or shine, we were outside. Waterproof suits when needed.
Sorry off topic but surely gentle parenting doesn’t mean avoiding all risk?