Today, I man-spread on the train.

[Trainarmrestfairy]

When a man sat next to me on the train and tried to manoeuvre my arm out the way, off the middle arm rest, so he could rest his there, I pushed back.

I’ve never ever put my arm on the middle arm rest between seats on a train before - I just take the one on the edge (either by the aisle or window).

But, today I fought back. Today I won. Ten years (excluding Covid) of men shoving their arm into my body and their legs onto my floor space, and today I fought back.

Incredibly petty, I know. But God it felt good. Not sure if that’s because of the surprised gasp the man gave or because of the power. Who knows? A victory to all women who have ever been squashed against the window of a train because a man felt it necessary to take up 1.5 seats!

I did this a few years ago. Big man, me squashed against window. I refused to give up the arm rest & he threw a tantrum, called an air hostess over, claimed I was hitting him in the arm & demanded to move seat. Hostess looked at me, I rolled my eyes & went back to my book. She understood, man felt silly & tried to insist I was hitting him.

he got moved elsewhere & I had a comfy 8 hour flight.

Patriarchy game is fun. Now I am 'an invisible woman of a certain age' I find that the jaunty pony-tail influencer types behave the same way. I take great joy in keeping my position and shoulder bashing them as I carry on. 🤓. They always huff and seem somewhat put out 😂🎻. It's an excellent sport.

Ah, were you the ungrateful stair people then?

Trust me, these particular stairs were definitely one way only but good to see you championing the bad mannered of Britain 👏🏻

I play patriarchy chicken. BUT I once asked DH about the men’s legs splayed when seated thing. He claims it’s because of men’s (clearly ginormous) packages, which we women don’t have. Apparently it’s uncomfortable for men to keep their legs (tightly) together when seated. What do you think, load of bollox?

I don’t see the problem. I said “most staircases can handle people passing in both directions”! Obviously if you are on one that won’t accommodate people passing it’s a different matter.

If there isn’t room, there isn’t room. There is a separate issue of some people thinking it’s unlucky to pass on the stairs. I will maintain good manners, but don’t bow to superstition.

Being a woman of a certain age l have seen a significant number of men’s “packages”. None appear to be of the size that men seem to think they are. It’s a case of small, medium and liar 😀.

I got the same response from DH and our DS’s when I asked the same question!

Your original response seemed to suggest that DH and I were devoid of common sense, just waiting around in stairways so that people could thank us for doing so! Who does that?! If we were waiting to let people past on the stairs, it was because there was no room for two people to use the stairs at the same time.

Interestingly I just relayed the thrust of this thread to my early 20 s son.

He said that men do this to men too. They spot you from a distance and make it their mission to 'win' the pavement. 🙄

DS says he thinks it's pathetic and that they are tossers 😂😂😂. He's been brought up well.

I’ll always put my hand up if I’m wrong! Sorry if l worded it badly ❤️.

It sounds like he did move, though - the post says he stepped into the road with the dogs to let the other person past, and was then a bit passive aggressive when he wasn't thanked. I would be annoyed at someone expecting me to move out of the way for their dog(s) but it doesn't sound like that's what happened here. I would have said thank you to the dog owner for stepping aside.

Maybe some men do - I wouldn’t put it past them! But I think most of them are just blithely going around assuming that they own the space and everyone will move. I think they are largely unaware of this in-bred entitlement to space.

If someone can't control their 3 dogs then they shouldn't have 3 dogs.

😂😂😂 this made me snort out my coffee!

I must admit, I have found the same. No package has yet been unearthed that necessitated a man to sit with his legs open completely sideways. But, men can dream can’t they?

Exactly! Men have no more need to sit like that than l do to air my fanny! 😀

I have found (from my admittedly not very extensive research) that there is an inverse relationship between the extent of a man's manspreading and the size of their tackle

That is, literally, a description of Patriarchy.

Well no, not a load of bollocks.

If they're uncomfortable because their trousers are too tight they need to get looser ones. Maybe they need more supportive pants? Whatever...they shouldn't be making it someone else's problem.

There is a biomechanics reason why men's thighs angle outwards. Their narrower pelvis and angle of hip joint means when relaxed for most men their thighs will fall into an outward angle more than most women.

This is also more extreme in some countries where there is a greater degree of hip dysplasia, like Poland.

This means sitting with thighs pointing straight forward requires a constant effort not experienced by most women.

This doesn't excuse the exaggerated wide angled position taken by arseholes but there is absolutely a reason why men and women have a naturally different angle of thigh.

You can test this easily. When you as a woman sit with your feet hip width apart take note of the natural way your thighs fall. Now turn your toes in slightly. The thighs tend to become even straighter

Now ask a man to do the same. The thighs naturally fall outward at an angle. Not a weird wide splaying. That's just being a crap head. But a definite different angle.

Ask him to point his thighs forwards and you can see it's an unnatural position

I remember my DGM in the 1970s walking down the pavement, never moving over for men saying that the problem with men is they are always under your feet.
I think she injured several with her shopping basket on wheels.

I’ve stopped automatically moving out of the way for men in the street. The amount of men that just walk directly into me assuming that I will be the one to move is astounding. But I’ve really enjoyed it 🤣

The best method I've ever had for pavements / getting on the tube etc etc was having a violin case that had an obvious metal trim on the edge, and holding it in front of me (rather than by my side) so that the narrow end was more or less at eye height... even pavements full of language students parted ways so that my mother (who followed me closely) and I didn't have to go into the road to get round them.

The worst manspreading I've experienced was in a theatre where the seats in the row in front were set slightly to the right of the seats in the row I was in - and the man to the left of me seemed to think that this meant he could occupy the space up to the back of the chair in front rather than simply the rectangle of space directly in front of his seat... that and of course all of the arm rest... combined with crossing his arms which at one point meant that he touched my breast (goodness knows why he thought this was acceptable) at which point I called him a pervert....

The worst pavement episode was actually a group of 3 late teenage girls. The pavement had been diverted behind plastic barriers so it was about 2m wide - wide enough for two people to pass easily, and possibly two people arm in arm pass a third with some squeezing. But all three of them were arm in arm and coming directly for me. I didn't know what they expected me to do but I stopped and braced for impact and the girl on the end nearly knocked herself over by hitting me!

Respect, lady ❤️💪💪💪💪💪

I got called a Karen on a packed train today for calling out a man for being rude and aggressive and an arsehole when he unfolded his bike in the aisle & told an elderly gentleman who had needed to stand for 45 mins to shove off out of the way and wouldn’t let him sit in his vacated seat.

was me & a few others who called him out, I was the only 1 called a name ! 😀

I do this in my wheelchair