Beavers - have we just been unlucky, or is this standard?

[KatiMaus]

Hi all - looking for some advice from those that understand this stuff better than me!

DS (6) started at Beavers in January and initially was quite excited at the prospect, but quickly lost interest. I couldn't get to the bottom of why, all he said was that the other kids were 'messing about'.

Last night, I went along as a parent volunteer (they have a rota for this, so it was the first time I'd experienced it). It was absolutely wild. Total lack of control of the kids, instructions not being followed, leader was visibly exasperated and I noticed DS and another boy wincing on a few occasions at the noise.

Games were ruined by kids not following the rules and there was a lot of rough behaviour (pushing each other).

DS is a VERY sensitive boy and is now saying that he doesn't want to go back.

Should I encourage him to persevere with it? Is it likely to get better once they reach Cubs age and calm down a bit? I love the idea of Beavers/scouts etc and the opportunities it will ultimately bring for him, but after what I saw last night, I can't say I blame him for wanting to give it up!

Wise folks of MN - is it always pretty chaotic, or have we got unlucky with this particular group?

I have his name on a waiting list for a group closer to home, too, but have been told that this could take another year or so until he is at the top of the list. Don't know whether to try another group, or accept that this type of thing is not right for DS. 🙁

Any advice gratefully received - thanks!

Unfortunately it can be very dependent on the other children.

Do they have an outdoors area, or are they inside all year? I personally find my Cub pack a lot more settled in the summer when we are outside. Small room plus 20 excitable children is loud

Nope unfortunately not just you, when my boys went it was the same, the people running it deserve medals. Absolute carnage.

Don't make him go back, it won't get any better.

How many adults in the room? Is there a behaviour code?

The one my son went to was very controlled but mainly by a lot of correction / shouting and VERY firm boundaries by the leader. She kept them in line but felt a little like they were in the army haha. My daughters brownies group was crazier / louder. All depends on the group and leaders. The staff do deserve medals

Have a look around at other nearby groups - we often have kids moving in one direction or the other. Like schools, some groups suit kids more than others - they are not identikit. You will probably find a group that is quieter / less lively / different tone from leader that might suit better.

Thanks for the replies, guys.

There is a small outdoor area towards the back of the hut that I think they have access to.

Last night there was 3 adults (2 of whom were parent helpers), 20 kids or so and 2 Explorers who seemed like lovely kids, but seemed a little awkward, which I guess is understandable.

I guess we'll probably call it a day if my experience isn't particularly unique! Such a shame because we've only just moved to the area and I wanted DS to mix with other kids outside of school. I just can't justify putting him in a position that I know is going to make him uncomfortable every week, though.

Same we quit going
DS said an older Man got very red and angry and shouted so we knocked that on the head
DS happy in other group settings which were better run

definitely dependant on what children attend. DH and DS's are involved with the scouting family and 2-3 kids can completely change a group. As pp's have said too, with it being winter and them being stuck in the hut things can also get rowdy.

I'd not go back, but try the other group you are on the list for, maybe by summer and they can get outdoors the rowdy kids will calm down. I say that as being the parent of one of the rowdy ones.

Oops sorry forgot to answer the question about the behaviour code.

We were told that it was a 3 strikes and you're out policy and they said they operate a strict code which is designed to encourage the kids to be respectful. There wasn't much of this in evidence last night, to be honest, but there was just too much for the guy leading the group to manage. I'd be horrified if I found out that DS was behaving like some of the kids there yesterday.

I'll ask around at school, as a couple of his classmates go to the other group that he's on the waiting list for. Bought the damn uniform now and everything, so I am quite reluctant to give up!

Had the same with my ds. He liked Beavers but not Cubs due to a hopeless leader and similar issues to your son, Op. He ended up leaving altogether as when I enquired at enrolling at another pac, explaining the situation, the man on the phone replied, "Oh, yes, we have the same problems with behaviour here"!
I have run both Rainbow and Brownie packs. Admittedly all girls but we had expectations of behaviour which were largely met. If they weren't, children and parents were spoken to.

Is it always just one leader and two parents?

Unfortunately they need more "proper" leaders.

Every cub/scout group is different. Some are run really like clockwork and very well organised with great behaviour. Some are chaotic.

Try a different one.

It can vary group to group, and is very much dependent on the current set of children, and what the leaders are like. So you might find that another group will work better for your child.

I'm a cub leader, and it can be quite chaotic at times, but generally not too bad. But I would say that many children at the moment don't seem capable of following basic instructions such as staying quiet while games are explained etc. It does seem to be worse than it used to be, say, 10 years ago when I first started. And it only takes a couple of noisy kids to set the rest of them off!

One of our beaver groups solves this by only having 12 kids, which does help, but of course means that waiting lists are higher.

Not wanting to be that person, but know I am

"The staff do deserve medals"

They are not staff, they are volunteers.
They don't get paid a bean, give a lot of their time and often dip into their own pockets for materials for activities etc.
Poor behaviour of the children is one of the main reasons group leaders step down

This.

Not my experience at all, locally, very well run but very dependant on the behaviour of the children attending and the skill/experience of the volunteer leaders.

My DC’s had some leaders who were teachers though and a very visible senior scout leadership ( district scout leaders who would support).

Unfortunately, even in some schools, behaviour is an issue.

Adults don't often volunteer to lead groups any longer. Unfortunately a bit of a downward spiral, awful behaviour, struggling adults, less volunteers, less quality.

Have you tried another pack?

It depends on the individual groups and leaders

It's dependent on the mix of kids and the leadership skills of the adults. I make no criticism there, as I'm aware they are volunteers giving up valuable time and energy.

My son loved Cubs. The leaders somehow struck a really nice balance of fun and firmness. The boys had sooo much energy and they had them doing lots of physical outdoor activities. When he moved up to Scouts it was a different matter. The main leader was very gruff and tried to rule with a rod of iron. The kids either rebelled or just stopped enjoying it.

It might be worth asking around to see what other cub companies (is that still the right word?) are like. The ones with a good proportion of girls tend to be a bit calmer (sorry for the generalisation).

@TickingAlongNicely

It's so difficult to get help so lots of groups run with one leader & a rota of parent helpers. It's that or close the section

In this case, it sounds like this might happen anyway as kids leave as it's too loud

Just adding @KatiMaus , you could attend as a parent volunteer every week for a while. It would support your son and give you a chance to build a relationship with the leader and by using any behaviour expectations, learn how to support too.

Groups of children are much easier to manage with more volunteers

I wouldn't necessarily worry about staying in Beavers to keep your future space in Scouts. My DS loved Beavers but hated cubs because of the leader. I took him out, and he rejoined for Scouts. By the time Scouts comes round, you might find there are more spaces because kids start dropping out as they get older and have other commitments.

When DS was at Beavers he encountered similar to what you've described. He is very quiet & shy, do found it quite overwhelming. Emails were sent home about behaviour, including the possibility of closing the session, but nothing changed. In the end, the leader brought her husband to each session in a bid to restore order (he was also a local Beaver leader, just on a different night).

He moved onto Cubs and all was good, but after moving up to Scouts he said the behaviour from the older children was awful again - no listening, shouting, blatantly ignoring the leaders etc. He was constantly targeted by other Scouts, who taunted him about his size (very small for his age), deliberately humiliated and generally picked on. The leaders seemed to think the other kids were just joking around and never actually challenged them about their bullying behaviour. I was quite shocked as I thought Scouts instilled good values in their members, but apparently not. He left after a couple of months.

@KatiMaus Find a better group with children more likely to be well behaved and who actually listen.

Most children aren’t exercised outdoors enough in my opinion- hence being wild , kids dogs and certain ponies need a good walk to keep them sane.

Keeping a biggish group of excitable kids (inevitably including some potentially naughty ones) under control and keeping things fun at the same time is not something most volunteers can manage well. It comes down to luck (wrt what that group of kids is like and how good the leaders are). Leaders who are teachers sometimes manage it, but it baffles ne why a teacher would want to spend yet more time in charge of bunches of kids (I'm a teacher!). My ds left Beavers (years ago) for the same reason, and he wasn't particularly sensitive, just fed up with the poor behaviour.