DS school refusal is driving me mad

[VerityUnreasonble]

I'll start this I guess by saying I'm not expecting any magic solutions, I'm mostly just having a moan.

DS is in year 7, we've had issues with him refusing school for the last 3 years. His attendance hovers around 85% which was much the same in year 6, it was slightly better in year 5.

DS has a diagnosis of ASD, he is academically very able, socially not so much but he's not upset by this.

Reasons he currently refuses to go in are:

He's tired (probably true - he is under sleep clinic and prescribed melatonin, also slightly defiencient in vitamin D and B12 which he is being treated for)

He doesn't feel well (sort of true - usually means he has a slight cold)

He has to go too much / there are too many days in a school year (this is his major reason at the moment, he doesn't want to go because he doesn't like it and feels he has to be there too often)

It starts too early (he will occasionally go in slightly later or for the afternoon)

There are various lessons / things he dislikes (sports/ presentations etc. - contributes to some days being worse than others)

Have tried both carrot and stick approach, the only thing he's really fussed about is access to his tech but even using that as a bribe / punishment isn't effective. Have tried reasoning and talking, he can explain very eloquently the reasons he should go, and even wants to go, he just still doesn't.

I'm missing bits of work, being late, having to rearrange things. I'm stressed about it all the time. School have requested a meeting in a couple of weeks to discuss "how to improve things" but honestly I have no idea.

I just have no idea how things are going to get better!

@VerityUnreasonble so good to see your update. Hope he has a good day and it increases his confidence and ability to go in.

My DD is mid 20s now but reading this brought back the horror of those years and the ignorance connected to it, as seen in this thread.

She's thriving now, great job and great work ethic. School is brutal for a lot of kids.

@Illjusthavethebreadsticks

I second what @StrivingForSleep says.

This was for the 4 months in the run up to GCSEs but we had 3 hours tuition a day in maths English and science. DD didn't have an EHCP but it was granted as medical tuition. As with everything else (of course) I had to push for it.

I contacted the LEA, the school attendance officer, head of year and head of SEN. They had to submit evidence and I got a letter from CAMHS to back up the evidence.. but we got there.

It was these tutors that meant that my DD felt able to go back into school (purely to take the exams) .. I had resigned myself to the fact that she wasn't going to be able to do them.

Keep on pushing! I know it's really hard and so much work (I'm a single parent working full time) but it's really worth it. Good luck

So much ignorance on this thread.

So many clueless people feeling like superior parents who don't have the first clue.
It's depressing. But not surprising.
I hope to God none of you teach or work with children in any capacity.
But sadly I expect many of you might!

Absolutely is the case.
my daughter is ASD and ADHD and school refusal started in Y8. We tried everything.
She isn’t anxious but unless you understand how the autistic brain works you’ll never get this.
it isn’t won’t it’s can’t.
My daughter couldn’t explain and still can’t explain.
She works from home now and has been since last February. She’s in Y11.
We sought her diagnosis too late and pushed her too hard and it’s taken a year to get my child back to how she was.

This is not your son's problem, it's not your problem, it's not even school's problem. The system is failing so many students now. I'm a SENDCO and it kills me that so many kids aren't coping. I'm so sorry you're experiencing this.

Unfortunately no magic solutions.
My solution was to seek educational psychologist and psychiatrist advice - both advised for my daughter to take a break from school.
She did last February in Y10. I school her from home even though she is still enrolled in school.
She sat two GCSEs last year - computer science grade 5 and geography grade 6. Both she was failing.
She is much happier and plans to go to 6th form college - I’m open minded whether she will.
My youngest is struggling in Y9 and I would home school her too.
not everyone’s solution but school isn’t for everyone.
And this comes from me who is an SEN TA and worked within a pastoral role.

I just know that my daughter is happier and healthier now than she was from age 12 till 15.
Contact ipsea is my advice.

Really the ones who stay home are not facilitated by the parents and if your DH believes that he really doesn’t understand ASD.
I didn’t want my child to be at home, it took me to the brink of despair. I couldn’t work for 18 months.
It is not won’t it is can’t.
Your DH needs to understand how that parent feels every single morning having to send that email saying sorry I can’t get them in. As before that would have probably been hours of hell.
Yes I agree in certain situations in school avoidance it is facilitated by the parents but even in that situation - why doesn’t the child want to go?!

I do sympathise I had issues with all my 3 in secondary school, they were all very able and intelligent and were never difficult in any other respect . I had never had to be disciplinarian, which was great as I was widowed when the youngest was 3. The youngest had body dismorphia which was a terrible thing to deal with. Luckily the school were very understanding and she got reasonable gcses with a mixture of me tutoring, a maths tutor every week and school when I could get her to go.
College was a lot more successful and she has gone on to have a brilliant career ( unlike myself, I never really recovered from all those difficult school years!)
I wish you all the luck, it is exhausting and upsetting when you want your child to enjoy their education and reach their potential. Hopefully yours will develop some interests and skills that will give him some incentive to go to school

Exactly the same here. My 2 girls have excellent attendance records (one 100% from reception to now year 11!) and I don’t have to do anything to get them to school. My AuDHD son however, completely different. He sounds very much like OPs son and we have similar struggles. His EP assessment put him in the top 4% for his age and school reading tests put his reading age at 17+ (he’s 12). So he can produce very articulate arguments for not going to school.

@VerityUnreasonble This might not be an option for you, but my son flexischools. He has one set day each week at home when he does coding and other activities he enjoys, and 4 days in school. He has a host of reasonable adaptations at school too. It is perhaps not possible due to a clash with work, but we find it easier to get our son into school each week because he knows that it is only 4 days and he can see that we are trying to meet him part way.

He does still complain about going to school, pretty much every day, but it is slightly less stressful for all of us that the struggle is only for 4 days a week.

With the articulate arguments, I often don't disagree with dd, which is where it's hard...

'Mum - I could get up at 7, which as we both know will render me exhausted all day, I have biology first and we have a substitute teacher, lifeskills next which will be another chat on drugs which I'm already well aware of, lunch is a waste of my time and I hate Spanish which is 4th and intend to drop. Or, I could get up at 10. I plan to walk to the farm to get my eggs and spinach for breakfast which I'll cook and clear up after and then I'm going to do a past paper.'

You clearly have no understanding of ND children. My daughter has an ASD diagnosis, and we are currently pursuing an EHCP for her (Y9). We are fortunate in that her secondary school is small (400-ish pupils) and has an excellent SENCO. She still struggles from time to time. Coming down heavily on her either now or when she was younger would have been traumatic; we, and her home, are her "safe place".
I have no particular answers, OP, as each child, ND or NT, is different. Will the school set work for your DS, for the times he feels unable to attend? Would he do the work if school provided it?

Not read all of the posts OP but maybe move the post to the SEN page if there is one. Parents of NT kids just don't get it. And their advice will not be remotely helpful. My son has ASD and he's 4. Every morning is a battle to get him to preschool, he is anxious about school, hates getting dressed (kicks, cries, takes his clothes off), fussy eater so breakfast is an ordeal and can't cope with transitions. Luckily he's 4 and despite being 16kg I can still carry him, which is often what ends up happening otherwise I would not be able to physically get him to school. Once he's there he runs straight in. But what should be a 10 min journey takes 30 mins.
I don't know what we will do as he gets older.
We get alot of judgemental unhelpful advice from MIL - "why don't you just shout at him, you aren't disciplining him properly". But as you know OP what works for NT kids doesn't work for ND. We have tried everything. I
really feel for you going through this.

@JoyousGreyOrca doing a spot of trolling tonight? Clearly you have no understanding of Autism so probably best not to post unhelpful, unempathetic comments. God the amount of comments on mumsnet from people like you drive me mad. Good luck telling an autistic kid to "just do" something. I can't think of even one occasion where that's worked.

He sounds just like my 10 year old DS. Mine has ASD and also PDA. Your son sounds very much like he fits the PDA profile with punishments not bothering him etc.
firstly you have to remember it’s not that he won’t go to school it’s that he can’t. And so school need to be filing for an EHCP (or you can go down this route yourself) as the school are not meeting his needs for him to be able to feel he CAN go in. Turn it all around back to them.
I highly recommend the book ‘The Explosive Child’ and there’s tons of PDA groups on FB too which helps make you feel less alone.
for those talking about jobs I did lose mine (£100k+ salary) and I had to retrain and I now work from home (on about a quarter of my previous salary) as he won’t go to before or after school clubs. Won’t go to school at all and will have a huge meltdown (an actual meltdown not a tantrum) if he had to go to before or after school clubs.
but realising he was PDA has been an eye opener. For example they like choices, and so before if I said ‘come on eat your breakfast’ that could sometimes cause the biggest meltdown and end with him not able to go to school.
now I ask ‘would you like to eat breakfast at the table or on the sofa’ giving just that small bit of control back to him has been helping.
although you need to be careful not to give too much control or that can also make them anxious as they don’t know what to do with it.
pretty much every demand avoidance will stem back to an anxiety. It’s getting to the root of these anxieties that will help eventually (I’m not there yet but trying one at a time).

sorry I’ve written loads but having been there I know it’s horrendous and so stressful, and everyone says ‘just make them’ or ‘but they have to go’ etc etc. the reality is my son would take all his clothes off, kick, scream, run away, so how!?

I literally have to live day to day now as if I think any further it really stresses me out. But feel free to message me privately if you’d ever just like a rant x

He is on medication which makes him groggy.

He has vit deficiencies which affect energy levels.

He has autism ( a disability) which has sensory issues particularly around noise light and other people.

Masking causes stress.

being around people and new situations (like SS) overwhelm.

where is the compassion and understanding? Would you tell someone in a wheelchair- tuff get out and walk? Feel enlightened now about the reality of autism?

My DD wasn’t dx despite clear MH until her gcse and eventually had a breakdown incl self harming when CAMHS directed time off school. Do you wish this for the OP’s son? Or do kids have to be physically and mentally broken before there is any consideration that he isn’t just faking it and trying to rule the roost?

OP this is your reality. You need to find a way to make it work - part time attendance, late starts 1 day off middle of the week. Get agreed with employer and school. Get your gp on side to support.

Following for tips but best I can say is the lower demand you can make it at home and that they can do at school, the easier it will be longer term. I know that’s easier said than done though.

Some parents also say the later teens are easier than the early and pre-teens, so hopefully this is a particularly difficult stage navigating the transition to secondary and then things will get a lot easier.

It's very alarming, the number of ignorant people on here who actually think you can just punish a neurodivergent child and the neurodivergence will magically go away.

Although all children are different, many ASD children like rules. Do you have rules in your house that he likes and adheres to? Could you build up these rules into getting dressed every day etc and finally going to school? It’s a bit simplistic without knowing your child.

@SarahJane796

But isn't that what every household with school aged kids has? Get up at x , get dressed at x , eat breakfast , clean teeth.

What's the difference?

“He has vit deficiencies which affect energy levels.”

Both of my DC with Send, DD with ADHD and DS with ASD had deficiencies diagnosed by blood tests and we have had to really teach them to supplement well and eat a balanced diet. I think it is the daily stress they experience that depletes them and the high cortisol. We avoided breakdowns in our case and as much as school adjustments were important, so was sleep, diet, supplements and exercise. And the NHS is not always great at doing blood tests, we really had to insist. This may just be us, but just raising it.

Is he depressed or bullied at school?

You probably better find another school more strict in term of disciplinary where there is less bullying or even homeschooling with some days in a Tuiton center.

Children and teenagers like going to school for friends mainly. Inviting some friends at home even from primary school during the term, trying to meet with other mums.

Thats hard to live without friends, some parents just forget that’s important for the well-being of the child. They need to interact with others specially in teenage.

I get that this is probably well meant advice, but no, he isn't bullied at school.

You're right, many teenagers do enjoy going to school to see their friends. My DD did when she was at school.

DS doesn't have friends because he chooses not to. He is not interested in other children. I can't force him to make friends and more than I could force him to get dressed if he didn't want to. Other children are nice to him, they take an interest in him and are kind, despite the fact that he is a little unusual in some of the things he does. I can't invite any of his friends from primary round because he didn't have any.

If another child speaks to him he will (usually) reply. If they ask him about something he is particularly interested in he will tell them some facts about it. He won't ask them anything about them. He will occasionally try a "and how are you" because he understands that reciprocal conversation is a social norm - he's not actually interested or bothered and it's an effort for him, not something that comes naturally. If he has had enough of anyones company, he will often either stop speaking completely or just leave, sometimes he will say bye first.

He prefers to spend his time on his own, at most alongside other people. It isn't hard for him to live without friends - maybe it would be for you, for him it is not a need.

However, he does live in a world full of other people, he can't avoid them entirely, and learning to interact with them is a skill that he needs, so being at school I think is probably important in that regard. If it can be maintained in a way that doesn't cause too much stress.

He actually likes his current school as far as any school goes and feels that of the schools we went and looked at it was the best one.

You are exactly right. School makes a great deal of demands on our children - if we can lighten up at home it can be very helpful. I read a book once about parenting ND children - sorry, can't remember title or author - but one thing stuck with me. It was "few rules, rigidly enforced". Excellent advice, I thought, because it really helped by child build up their internal "rule book". Examples of rules are things related to safety such as ' Don't run away from parent', 'Take care crossing the road', 'don't play with knives' etc.

I feel the same, my DS has been in and out of school since starting secondary, some adjustments are in place but no EHCP as yet. Right now he's out but it all came to a head with a full-on mental health crisis and he keeps running away from home, so getting that aspect sorted is paramount but I wish he could be back in a learning environment and I could work more too. I don't have the mental health to teach him myself