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Ableism on mumsnet

174 replies

Kitten1982 · 05/02/2025 10:36

This was my reply on another post but I wanted to share it in its own thread because I’m so shocked and saddened by the comments I see about disability and disability benefits on here. I’ve been so distressed by some of them, I ended up in tears yesterday. The way some mumsnetters talk about disabled people is not only disgusting, it’s downright dangerous and you’re allowing governments to pave the way to leave more of us dead, just like many of us died due to Tory austerity.

i know there’s a lot of older people on here who might have more conservative views and I know there’s a lot of middle class people on here who don’t know what it’s like to rely on such a pittance, and don’t spare a second to think about how little money it is- nor ask themselves why we’d choose to live on too little money, constantly with the precarity of the whims of assessors (who have targets) and governments, rather than work. I have a first class degree and plenty of relative experience to get a job. I was meant to be moving onto my PhD when I developed even more conditions.

This is a plea from the bottom of my heart and the many vulnerable people I campaign with feel unanimously the same. You’re making suffering people suffer more. Think about that.

Anyway, here’s the reply I sent, please read it and inform yourselves before commenting on fake disabled people defrauding the state, or real disabled people not bothering to work…

TBC, that group of people is so small that it’s offensive when people raise it. The UK fraud rate for disability benefits is 0.2%. It’s not worth mentioning and it muddies the water and it allows people to diagnose people as frauds by eye. Like those people who see someone stand up from their wheelchair and assume they’re a fraud because they think all wheelchair users are paralysed. Or people whose disabilities aren’t visible having to deal with friends and family saying stuff like you did x, so you must be able to do y/ you did x yesterday so you can do it today. People who make those examples against chronically ill people aren’t medically qualified and if they were, they’re not the ones who performed their medical history, examination and tests.

if it was another subject, a lot of people would be more careful about allowing sweeping statements to be made about an entire population, based on the actions of less than than half of a half of a percentage point. It’s horribly unfair and it means that disabled people like me and my disabled DC are looked at with suspicion by the general public.

i wrote something a few years back- it was published for scope and was a guest post for Mumsnet. It was called, ‘I’m tired of having to perform my disability.’ And so many people agreed with the article because they experienced the same feelings as me about being paranoid about societal judgements. So a lot of us ending up vocalising our pain when we’d otherwise be silent in it (which makes it easier to cope with) or having to transfer out of my wheelchair in a way society expects and accepts, rather than the way which is comfortable for me. It’s not fair that 0.2% of people who’ve decided to pretend our disabilities are having such an awful impact on the 99.8% who are genuine, not to mention all the genuine people who are wrongly turned down and have to appeal and put in for tribunals, and go through a hell of a lot of work to generate the necessary evidence.

if I only had one of my conditions (uncontrolled epilepsy with cluster seizures- which require emergency meds, but can also make me blind, paralysed, psychotic, incontinent, and wander off in my wheelchair), I would still need to claim disability benefits. But without my other conditions, I would seem just like anyone else between seizures, even though I have to have someone with me who’s trained to use my life saving medication at all times, it wouldn’t impact my other functions outside of the above. And when I am experiencing the above problems, my kids try to keep me inside the house (when I’m trying to run away in fear because the seizures have that impact on me afterwards) and I often just doze in bed, sometimes for a couple of days. I am often left with horrible vomiting and migraines. How would someone know what I look like when I’m very unwell when I’m either in bed or in hospital when it happens? Friends visit me in hospital, but only when I’m on the mend. They’ve seen seizures but only a couple have seen the clusters, and only one has seen my debilitating projectile vomiting condition (cvs- look it up. It goes beyond vomiting and is debilitating) because I don’t want to see people when I feel so unwell. The only reason the one friend who’s seen it has seen it is because she came to see me in hospital sans warning so I was still too ill to want visitors when she came in. So please, everyone, stop judging people as fakers and fit and we’ll because you really don’t have a clue.

i know I'm going to die young because of my health conditions (I’m 42 now and in 6 years alone I’ve been in trauma/ resus 10 times and have to be hospitalised several times a year. I lost a friend af the age of 34 to 2 of the same conditions as me, and another at 45), and I am so scared about whether my sons will be able to figure out the forms after I’m gone. Basically, I’m trying to create a guide for my eldest for how to fill in the forms for each of his brothers (he also has bipolar himself but doesn’t claim anything for it).

Can those (by no means do I only refer to the person I’m quoting but others on this thread) please actually do some research, but about fraudulence with disability benefits, but also relapsing and remitting conditions? In adding suspicions and repeating cliches which don’t apply to many, many disabilities, you’re allowing govts to effectively commit eugenics by starving us to death. Please stop, I beg you all.

As a final note: people rarely get disability benefits for low level mental illness, as otherwise claimed by the govt. My 22yo suffers from bipolar, CPTSD, and very severe social anxiety, as well as inheriting cvs, but he won’t claim, tries his hardest to get in to college for his course, and since he lost his last job for having to be taken into A&E due to throwing up blood whilst still on probation in the job, he’s worked his arse off to find other work (side note: if anyone has something in southern central Hampshire, please message. He’s training as a mechanic but he’s worked in restaurants, helped me to run my former business on the admin side, and he’s carer to 3 people, so he’s very responsible.). I have been disabled for 42 years and only gave up my business a year ago, despite having 12 conditions during the total time I ran this particular business, and other people to whom I have to be a carer- albeit through advice, admin and verbal help.

Just please stop assuming relapsing and remitting conditions are fake or not as bad as the sufferer says; stop saying mental illness can be overcome- some people can, others can’t, it’s not a personal failing; stop assuming your eyes can tell you someone’s whole health experience; and stop assuming disability benefits are too generous (actually some of the lowest in Europe vs cost of living), or that it’s easy to get disability benefits for “scroungers” because they’re hard enough for genuinely disabled people to claim.

Disabled people need the vocal public support of others right now because if they ever do manage to get the green paper through, we could lose PIP to an insufficient catalogue,, and the WCA will turn away more people like me (people with multiple complex conditions). Disabled people are in for having to survive a political storm when all we’ve done to deserve wicked treatment is being disabled. Life’s hard enough as a disabled person when society doesn’t try to tear you down and the govt isn’t trying to force you into starvation. Please be kinder.

OP posts:
PocketSand · 07/02/2025 17:30

My son is autistic. There is no medical follow up so no evidence from medical professionals. What would they say if there was - he is still autistic? It's a life long condition. It should not be reviewed by DWP to see if they are still autistic.

My son failed to attend specialist school at 15 and has been home since with me as full time carer for the last 6 years. He can't even cope with tradespeople visiting without locking himself in his room and can't leave the house.

But a caring employer would solve this? No. He needs ongoing financial support because there is nothing else that can help him live independently (with my support).

LadyKenya · 07/02/2025 17:38

And it is people in your situation, (no one in their right mind would expect your Son to be able to work, with other people) who are having to worry due to the rhetoric which is getting ever louder, about disabled people, and getting those who do not work, into work@PocketSand. It is cruel, and will cause a lot of people distress. Some people will never be able to work, in a job.

Lovebirdslovetea · 07/02/2025 17:40

PocketSand · 07/02/2025 17:30

My son is autistic. There is no medical follow up so no evidence from medical professionals. What would they say if there was - he is still autistic? It's a life long condition. It should not be reviewed by DWP to see if they are still autistic.

My son failed to attend specialist school at 15 and has been home since with me as full time carer for the last 6 years. He can't even cope with tradespeople visiting without locking himself in his room and can't leave the house.

But a caring employer would solve this? No. He needs ongoing financial support because there is nothing else that can help him live independently (with my support).

They don’t mean is he still autistic they mean to ask have his needs changed. Unfortunately people are being diagnosed autistic when they can get keep and maintain friendships and relationships have children keep a job live a normal life which has created the impression that autistic people can do all of that that’s why you’ve got it hard

EpicGem · 07/02/2025 18:59

I'm disabled. A wheelchair user. For all those claiming they could apply for and get PIP if they were so inclined to game the system, you might want to consider my experiences of both claiming PIP and the reassessment for PIP.

I first applied back in 2019. I was advised to do so by my own GP who provided evidence supporting my claim. I had an assessment and was turned down. I gathered even more evidence for a mandatory reconsideration. That was also rejected. I started a new application. At the same time my UC work coach (as I was off sick at the time) referred me for a WCA. I had my WCA assessment a month before my PIP assessment. I attended the WCA assessment alone as I didn't have anyone to attend with me. I attended my PIP assessment with a case worker from my GP surgery. The 2 assessments were vastly different. The WCA assessor paid attention to me, looked at me when asking questions and listening to my answers. In contrast, the PIP assessor spent most of the time looking either at the computer screen or the wall next to them.
I was awarded LCWRA but not PIP. I went to MR with PIP and was refused again. I took it to tribunal, highlighting the inconsistencies in my supposedly "mitraculous" recovery between the 2 assessments. I was again turned down and even told by the DWP that my WCA assessment couldn't be used as evidence (this will be important) I tried one last time to apply for PIP. By this point it was during the pandemic and I was running out of fight to get the help I needed. Again, I was initially turned down after assessment. I went to MR again and was finally awarded standard rate. Not enhanced, which my mobility level falls under, but standard. They used my WCA assessment report to award me a lowest amount of PIP. Not evidence from medical professionals.
This time last year came the time to send in my reapplication for PIP. My health has deteriorated since then. Not that the DWP care, I'm still only eligible for standard rate.
You can give the DWP all the medical evidence you can get your hands on, you can tell them all the things they are supposedly looking to hear. However, if your assessor got up on the wrong side of the bed or has a quota of refusals to fill, it doesn't matter how genuine your claim is. You will be refused.
Since I was informed by the DWP that there will be no change to my PIP from standard, I've had a couple of strokes. I'm being advised to go back to the DWP and see if I can get them to look at my claim again. I really don't want to because I don't want to face an assessment that leaves me feeling like a criminal for wanting to fight for something towards the support I need again anytime soon. I'd say I never want to face it again, but I'm a realist and far too many in the UK would rather vote for parties that treat disabled people like frauds than parties that treat us like human beings.

HÆLTHEPAIN · 07/02/2025 19:20

EpicGem · 07/02/2025 18:59

I'm disabled. A wheelchair user. For all those claiming they could apply for and get PIP if they were so inclined to game the system, you might want to consider my experiences of both claiming PIP and the reassessment for PIP.

I first applied back in 2019. I was advised to do so by my own GP who provided evidence supporting my claim. I had an assessment and was turned down. I gathered even more evidence for a mandatory reconsideration. That was also rejected. I started a new application. At the same time my UC work coach (as I was off sick at the time) referred me for a WCA. I had my WCA assessment a month before my PIP assessment. I attended the WCA assessment alone as I didn't have anyone to attend with me. I attended my PIP assessment with a case worker from my GP surgery. The 2 assessments were vastly different. The WCA assessor paid attention to me, looked at me when asking questions and listening to my answers. In contrast, the PIP assessor spent most of the time looking either at the computer screen or the wall next to them.
I was awarded LCWRA but not PIP. I went to MR with PIP and was refused again. I took it to tribunal, highlighting the inconsistencies in my supposedly "mitraculous" recovery between the 2 assessments. I was again turned down and even told by the DWP that my WCA assessment couldn't be used as evidence (this will be important) I tried one last time to apply for PIP. By this point it was during the pandemic and I was running out of fight to get the help I needed. Again, I was initially turned down after assessment. I went to MR again and was finally awarded standard rate. Not enhanced, which my mobility level falls under, but standard. They used my WCA assessment report to award me a lowest amount of PIP. Not evidence from medical professionals.
This time last year came the time to send in my reapplication for PIP. My health has deteriorated since then. Not that the DWP care, I'm still only eligible for standard rate.
You can give the DWP all the medical evidence you can get your hands on, you can tell them all the things they are supposedly looking to hear. However, if your assessor got up on the wrong side of the bed or has a quota of refusals to fill, it doesn't matter how genuine your claim is. You will be refused.
Since I was informed by the DWP that there will be no change to my PIP from standard, I've had a couple of strokes. I'm being advised to go back to the DWP and see if I can get them to look at my claim again. I really don't want to because I don't want to face an assessment that leaves me feeling like a criminal for wanting to fight for something towards the support I need again anytime soon. I'd say I never want to face it again, but I'm a realist and far too many in the UK would rather vote for parties that treat disabled people like frauds than parties that treat us like human beings.

It’s disgusting how you have been treated. And how many hoops you have to jump through just to get support that you’re entitled to.

But, those posters still won’t be convinced by your actual experience, because they know better of course and think it’s so easy.🙄

LadyKenya · 07/02/2025 19:32

That sounds like a really difficult experience you have had, trying to access a PIP award @EpicGem . I have read of so many people's experience of the assessment, and how unprofessional some of the people carrying them out have been. Those people who think that it is so easy to acquire PIP have, I believe next to no personal experience of the process. No doubt though they have an 'Uncle Brian' somewhere, who only looked at the application form, and was awarded top wack within 2 days!🙄

PandoraSox · 07/02/2025 19:34

@EpicGem I am so sorry. Do you think you have the strength to take it to the Tribunal stage if needed? I feel sure you have a really good chance of winning. How can you not qualify for the enhanced rates as a wheelchair user? It is disgraceful.

HÆLTHEPAIN · 07/02/2025 19:37

Just to note, one thing I did was record both the PIP and ESA assessments. I had read of so many people saying their assessors had basically lied and I genuinely believe that contributed to my experience being relatively straightforward because they couldn’t twist anything that I said. I’d recommend it to anyone.

EpicGem · 07/02/2025 20:37

PandoraSox · 07/02/2025 19:34

@EpicGem I am so sorry. Do you think you have the strength to take it to the Tribunal stage if needed? I feel sure you have a really good chance of winning. How can you not qualify for the enhanced rates as a wheelchair user? It is disgraceful.

I'm passed the point of being able to appeal the reassessment verdict as it was last year. If I can muster the fight to ask them to look again at my award due to the strokes, I'll probably keep pushing to tribunal if they say everything is fine and my level hasn't changed. I did ask a friend who has a Phd in maths if there was some formula they knew of that could calculate 0 metres into over 200 metres. I got looked at strangely, so I guess DWP maths is a branch unknown to the mathematics world in general.

Lovebirdslovetea · 07/02/2025 20:56

EpicGem · 07/02/2025 20:37

I'm passed the point of being able to appeal the reassessment verdict as it was last year. If I can muster the fight to ask them to look again at my award due to the strokes, I'll probably keep pushing to tribunal if they say everything is fine and my level hasn't changed. I did ask a friend who has a Phd in maths if there was some formula they knew of that could calculate 0 metres into over 200 metres. I got looked at strangely, so I guess DWP maths is a branch unknown to the mathematics world in general.

I don’t understand why they rejected you if you’re in a wheelchair.

EpicGem · 07/02/2025 21:38

Lovebirdslovetea · 07/02/2025 20:56

I don’t understand why they rejected you if you’re in a wheelchair.

If you try to figure out any sense behind DWP decisions it only gives you a headache.

XenoBitch · 07/02/2025 21:40

EpicGem · 07/02/2025 21:38

If you try to figure out any sense behind DWP decisions it only gives you a headache.

Yes, I have a friend who was rejected despite being classed as blind, and needing someone to guide her about.

TigerRag · 08/02/2025 06:09

XenoBitch · 07/02/2025 21:40

Yes, I have a friend who was rejected despite being classed as blind, and needing someone to guide her about.

I've come across several people online who are blind who've been turned down

LadyKenya · 08/02/2025 09:03

That is why a lot of people get help for filling in the forms, from CAB etc, as it can be difficult to know how to get across the day to day difficulties, and that will not help a persons application. It beggars belief that someone who is in a wheelchair would be turned down for mobility, or that being blind would not get an award.

TigerRag · 08/02/2025 13:46

CAB filled mine in. Well they missed out an awful lot of information and told me "I know what Autism is and it doesn't cause you any problems".

I did my MR myself because I couldn't risk them messing it up again

LadyKenya · 08/02/2025 14:59

Wow@TigerRag That is bad. It really is the luck of the draw sometimes.

PocketSand · 08/02/2025 15:01

I was sent review forms for DS last January. They said I had 4 weeks from the date of the letter to return but had sent it second class and 2 weeks had already passed. I got a reminder letter a couple of days later. I had all evidence already collected and met the deadline. I'm familiar with their ways.

I heard nothing for 11 months. Then yesterday I received a letter saying they had extended the award to February 2026 because they have not completed the review.

Sounds fair - 2 weeks for me to complete a multi page review and provide evidence and 2 years for them to actually read it.

Actually an improvement from the last review where I heard nothing before the next review was due. Worsening of need. I bet they would contact me quick smart if there was improvement. Probably different departments with resources thrown at reducing or denying claims whilst Shirley works one half day a week dealing with claims where conditions have got worse.

LadyKenya · 08/02/2025 15:22

The whole system is a mess, and needs a complete overhaul. Maybe they should stop awarding some claimants such short awards, seeing as they cannot even keep up with their own reviews systems.

PocketSand · 08/02/2025 16:40

Obviously extend awards where functional improvement is unlikely but why demand reviews with threat of loss of benefit when workloads mean review cannot be completed?

It would make more sense to suspend review until they have sufficient capacity to actually review.

Claimants are forced to stick to the timetable but DWP does not. If it turns out that the claimant should have a higher award is this backdated to when they submitted evidence 1 or 2 years ago?

BoredZelda · 08/02/2025 22:21

including if the disabled person is reliable. If they are not they get the employers money when absent , not government money, so it’s not sustainable for the employer.

Why wouldn't a disabled person be reliable? Surely whether or not anyone is reliable is an issue for employers, why specifically should it be a consideration for employers when taking on a disabled person?

TigerRag · 09/02/2025 07:41

BoredZelda · 08/02/2025 22:21

including if the disabled person is reliable. If they are not they get the employers money when absent , not government money, so it’s not sustainable for the employer.

Why wouldn't a disabled person be reliable? Surely whether or not anyone is reliable is an issue for employers, why specifically should it be a consideration for employers when taking on a disabled person?

Because some of us have conditions that make us ill. I also have a procedure done every few months that makes me ill for a few days.

sashh · 09/02/2025 07:48

Lovebirdslovetea · 07/02/2025 20:56

I don’t understand why they rejected you if you’re in a wheelchair.

They investigate.

They take film of you going about your day.

They come out to your home to check you do live there.

@JaneBoleynViscountessRochford You have no understanding of just how hard it is to get a job with a disability.

I applied for a trainee teacher of the deaf position at my local council. They have one of the tick boxes about being disability friendly and that everyone with a disability with the minimum requirements will be interviewed.

They wanted experience with the deaf community and level 2 BSL (or willing to study for)

My degree is Deaf Studies with Computing, I have a teaching qualification, my BSL, well I passed level 2 last century.

I didn't get an interview or even a letter rejecting me. I contacted my councillor. The council eventually said they rejected me because I didn't have experience running inset days.

EpicGem · 09/02/2025 18:23

sashh · 09/02/2025 07:48

They investigate.

They take film of you going about your day.

They come out to your home to check you do live there.

@JaneBoleynViscountessRochford You have no understanding of just how hard it is to get a job with a disability.

I applied for a trainee teacher of the deaf position at my local council. They have one of the tick boxes about being disability friendly and that everyone with a disability with the minimum requirements will be interviewed.

They wanted experience with the deaf community and level 2 BSL (or willing to study for)

My degree is Deaf Studies with Computing, I have a teaching qualification, my BSL, well I passed level 2 last century.

I didn't get an interview or even a letter rejecting me. I contacted my councillor. The council eventually said they rejected me because I didn't have experience running inset days.

I hope you're not trying to claim I'm not a genuine wheelchair user.

sashh · 10/02/2025 05:16

EpicGem · 09/02/2025 18:23

I hope you're not trying to claim I'm not a genuine wheelchair user.

Why would you think that?

The DWP do follow people, that's how they find the frauds. The ones claiming to be wheelchair users whist working as a bricklayer or a roofer.

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