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Ableism on mumsnet

174 replies

Kitten1982 · 05/02/2025 10:36

This was my reply on another post but I wanted to share it in its own thread because I’m so shocked and saddened by the comments I see about disability and disability benefits on here. I’ve been so distressed by some of them, I ended up in tears yesterday. The way some mumsnetters talk about disabled people is not only disgusting, it’s downright dangerous and you’re allowing governments to pave the way to leave more of us dead, just like many of us died due to Tory austerity.

i know there’s a lot of older people on here who might have more conservative views and I know there’s a lot of middle class people on here who don’t know what it’s like to rely on such a pittance, and don’t spare a second to think about how little money it is- nor ask themselves why we’d choose to live on too little money, constantly with the precarity of the whims of assessors (who have targets) and governments, rather than work. I have a first class degree and plenty of relative experience to get a job. I was meant to be moving onto my PhD when I developed even more conditions.

This is a plea from the bottom of my heart and the many vulnerable people I campaign with feel unanimously the same. You’re making suffering people suffer more. Think about that.

Anyway, here’s the reply I sent, please read it and inform yourselves before commenting on fake disabled people defrauding the state, or real disabled people not bothering to work…

TBC, that group of people is so small that it’s offensive when people raise it. The UK fraud rate for disability benefits is 0.2%. It’s not worth mentioning and it muddies the water and it allows people to diagnose people as frauds by eye. Like those people who see someone stand up from their wheelchair and assume they’re a fraud because they think all wheelchair users are paralysed. Or people whose disabilities aren’t visible having to deal with friends and family saying stuff like you did x, so you must be able to do y/ you did x yesterday so you can do it today. People who make those examples against chronically ill people aren’t medically qualified and if they were, they’re not the ones who performed their medical history, examination and tests.

if it was another subject, a lot of people would be more careful about allowing sweeping statements to be made about an entire population, based on the actions of less than than half of a half of a percentage point. It’s horribly unfair and it means that disabled people like me and my disabled DC are looked at with suspicion by the general public.

i wrote something a few years back- it was published for scope and was a guest post for Mumsnet. It was called, ‘I’m tired of having to perform my disability.’ And so many people agreed with the article because they experienced the same feelings as me about being paranoid about societal judgements. So a lot of us ending up vocalising our pain when we’d otherwise be silent in it (which makes it easier to cope with) or having to transfer out of my wheelchair in a way society expects and accepts, rather than the way which is comfortable for me. It’s not fair that 0.2% of people who’ve decided to pretend our disabilities are having such an awful impact on the 99.8% who are genuine, not to mention all the genuine people who are wrongly turned down and have to appeal and put in for tribunals, and go through a hell of a lot of work to generate the necessary evidence.

if I only had one of my conditions (uncontrolled epilepsy with cluster seizures- which require emergency meds, but can also make me blind, paralysed, psychotic, incontinent, and wander off in my wheelchair), I would still need to claim disability benefits. But without my other conditions, I would seem just like anyone else between seizures, even though I have to have someone with me who’s trained to use my life saving medication at all times, it wouldn’t impact my other functions outside of the above. And when I am experiencing the above problems, my kids try to keep me inside the house (when I’m trying to run away in fear because the seizures have that impact on me afterwards) and I often just doze in bed, sometimes for a couple of days. I am often left with horrible vomiting and migraines. How would someone know what I look like when I’m very unwell when I’m either in bed or in hospital when it happens? Friends visit me in hospital, but only when I’m on the mend. They’ve seen seizures but only a couple have seen the clusters, and only one has seen my debilitating projectile vomiting condition (cvs- look it up. It goes beyond vomiting and is debilitating) because I don’t want to see people when I feel so unwell. The only reason the one friend who’s seen it has seen it is because she came to see me in hospital sans warning so I was still too ill to want visitors when she came in. So please, everyone, stop judging people as fakers and fit and we’ll because you really don’t have a clue.

i know I'm going to die young because of my health conditions (I’m 42 now and in 6 years alone I’ve been in trauma/ resus 10 times and have to be hospitalised several times a year. I lost a friend af the age of 34 to 2 of the same conditions as me, and another at 45), and I am so scared about whether my sons will be able to figure out the forms after I’m gone. Basically, I’m trying to create a guide for my eldest for how to fill in the forms for each of his brothers (he also has bipolar himself but doesn’t claim anything for it).

Can those (by no means do I only refer to the person I’m quoting but others on this thread) please actually do some research, but about fraudulence with disability benefits, but also relapsing and remitting conditions? In adding suspicions and repeating cliches which don’t apply to many, many disabilities, you’re allowing govts to effectively commit eugenics by starving us to death. Please stop, I beg you all.

As a final note: people rarely get disability benefits for low level mental illness, as otherwise claimed by the govt. My 22yo suffers from bipolar, CPTSD, and very severe social anxiety, as well as inheriting cvs, but he won’t claim, tries his hardest to get in to college for his course, and since he lost his last job for having to be taken into A&E due to throwing up blood whilst still on probation in the job, he’s worked his arse off to find other work (side note: if anyone has something in southern central Hampshire, please message. He’s training as a mechanic but he’s worked in restaurants, helped me to run my former business on the admin side, and he’s carer to 3 people, so he’s very responsible.). I have been disabled for 42 years and only gave up my business a year ago, despite having 12 conditions during the total time I ran this particular business, and other people to whom I have to be a carer- albeit through advice, admin and verbal help.

Just please stop assuming relapsing and remitting conditions are fake or not as bad as the sufferer says; stop saying mental illness can be overcome- some people can, others can’t, it’s not a personal failing; stop assuming your eyes can tell you someone’s whole health experience; and stop assuming disability benefits are too generous (actually some of the lowest in Europe vs cost of living), or that it’s easy to get disability benefits for “scroungers” because they’re hard enough for genuinely disabled people to claim.

Disabled people need the vocal public support of others right now because if they ever do manage to get the green paper through, we could lose PIP to an insufficient catalogue,, and the WCA will turn away more people like me (people with multiple complex conditions). Disabled people are in for having to survive a political storm when all we’ve done to deserve wicked treatment is being disabled. Life’s hard enough as a disabled person when society doesn’t try to tear you down and the govt isn’t trying to force you into starvation. Please be kinder.

OP posts:
notwavingbutsinking · 07/02/2025 09:08

Ladamesansmerci · 07/02/2025 08:57

Try and ignore it, OP. Most people can't comprehend what it is like to be disabled and go through the stress of justifying tour existence to DWP to get a paltry amount of money. Most people don't like I'm fear of their only income being stopped suddenly because someone has decided they're not disabled enough. The media and rhetoric in this country around disabled people Ali's disgusting.

As you say, very very few people fraudulently claim disability money. I am far more concerned with billionaires and people hiding money offshore and in farms. Fuck Tories, fuck austerity, and fuck people's views on people on benefits who cba to think about the poverty cycle, generational trauma, lack of education, etc

I work in mental health services, and people with a lot of privilege or people who don't live/work in it can't imagine how difficult some people's lives are and always have been. The DWP and the benefit system cause a lot of harm to people's mental health, yet people seem to be under the impression everyone on benefits is living a life of luxury, lol.

On that note, disabled people and people on benefits are allowed to enjoy things. Disabled people who can't work are allowed to spend their money on a Costa, or going away for the weekend, or at the pub. It's no one's fucking business. In the same way it's no one's business if I live salary to salary and spend all money collecting Funko Pops or something.

On that note, disabled people and people on benefits are allowed to enjoy things. Disabled people who can't work are allowed to spend their money on a Costa, or going away for the weekend, or at the pub. It's no one's fucking business. In the same way it's no one's business if I live salary to salary and spend all money collecting Funko Pops or something.

Frances Ryan wrote a blistering piece on this a year or two ago.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/aug/08/britain-poor-people-leisure-victorian-workhouse

Britons have become so mean that many of us think poor people don’t deserve leisure time | Frances Ryan

This is the Victorian workhouse mentality repackaged for the iPhone era, says Guardian columnist Frances Ryan

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/aug/08/britain-poor-people-leisure-victorian-workhouse

sashh · 07/02/2025 09:08

I've said this before, having a disability in the UK is like living in 1930s Germany.

LadyKenya · 07/02/2025 09:11

sashh · 07/02/2025 09:08

I've said this before, having a disability in the UK is like living in 1930s Germany.

I am Black, and disabled, so I am doubly screwed!

Ladamesansmerci · 07/02/2025 09:16

notwavingbutsinking · 07/02/2025 09:08

On that note, disabled people and people on benefits are allowed to enjoy things. Disabled people who can't work are allowed to spend their money on a Costa, or going away for the weekend, or at the pub. It's no one's fucking business. In the same way it's no one's business if I live salary to salary and spend all money collecting Funko Pops or something.

Frances Ryan wrote a blistering piece on this a year or two ago.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/aug/08/britain-poor-people-leisure-victorian-workhouse

Such a depressing attitude. I don't know how we've gotten to the point as a society where we treat disabled people and poor people with such disdain.

Imagine thinking someone doesn't deserve any joy, or to socialise, or hobbies, because they don't work. It's callous.

SlapTheMelon · 07/02/2025 09:17

Ladamesansmerci · 07/02/2025 08:57

Try and ignore it, OP. Most people can't comprehend what it is like to be disabled and go through the stress of justifying tour existence to DWP to get a paltry amount of money. Most people don't like I'm fear of their only income being stopped suddenly because someone has decided they're not disabled enough. The media and rhetoric in this country around disabled people Ali's disgusting.

As you say, very very few people fraudulently claim disability money. I am far more concerned with billionaires and people hiding money offshore and in farms. Fuck Tories, fuck austerity, and fuck people's views on people on benefits who cba to think about the poverty cycle, generational trauma, lack of education, etc

I work in mental health services, and people with a lot of privilege or people who don't live/work in it can't imagine how difficult some people's lives are and always have been. The DWP and the benefit system cause a lot of harm to people's mental health, yet people seem to be under the impression everyone on benefits is living a life of luxury, lol.

On that note, disabled people and people on benefits are allowed to enjoy things. Disabled people who can't work are allowed to spend their money on a Costa, or going away for the weekend, or at the pub. It's no one's fucking business. In the same way it's no one's business if I live salary to salary and spend all money collecting Funko Pops or something.

Of course it's people's business. Your hatred to people who are doing well and generating income is absurd. Who do you think pay for those fucking Costas?

I'll repeat again, if you are disabled and can't work, I hope you do get the support, the money you need. BUT if you can work, there is no reason not to. You should contribute. No one is minimising OP's life experience here as she clearly needs support.

JaneBoleynViscountessRochford · 07/02/2025 09:21

I don’t think the rhetoric of how low disability benefits are helps matters because some people are actually going out and working for the same amount of money, or less. That, to me, makes it understandable how some people can get a bit pissed off. My Mum gets quite a few disability benefits (not sure which ones it’s her business - not any work related though as she is nearly 80) and seems to be pretty well off. I don’t grudge anyone any benefits, I earn great money and I am fit and well enough to work in a good job that gives me lots of benefits, not everyone is as lucky.

What I think also gets people’s backs up OP, and I am prepared to be flamed for this but here goes, posts like yours, incredibly long detailing all of your health conditions are, I assume, used to try and show how difficult things are for you but most people genuinely just don’t care and trying to get them to, and somehow change their thoughts by listing your medical issues on MN probably isn’t going to work.

There is a problem with too many people being on disability benefits, there needs to be more support into work and less acceptance of the ‘I can’t possibly work’ rhetoric.

LadyKenya · 07/02/2025 09:21

That report in the Guardian, makes for uneasy reading. Honestly, do some people really think so miserly? How sad.

BigSilly · 07/02/2025 09:25

LadyKenya · 07/02/2025 08:56

Well they must have some idea, hence the figures given.

But how? They would not be paying benefits to someone who they know is claiming fraudulently, so the figure an never be anything other than a complete guess!

LadyKenya · 07/02/2025 09:27

What I think also gets people’s backs up OP, and I am prepared to be flamed for this but here goes, posts like yours, incredibly long detailing all of your health conditions are, I assume, used to try and show how difficult things are for you but most people genuinely just don’t care and trying to get them to, and somehow change their thoughts by listing your medical issues on MN probably isn’t going to work.

Maybe you should just speak for yourself, and not other people. The OP has long gone, which is probably just as well.

Ladamesansmerci · 07/02/2025 09:27

SlapTheMelon · 07/02/2025 09:17

Of course it's people's business. Your hatred to people who are doing well and generating income is absurd. Who do you think pay for those fucking Costas?

I'll repeat again, if you are disabled and can't work, I hope you do get the support, the money you need. BUT if you can work, there is no reason not to. You should contribute. No one is minimising OP's life experience here as she clearly needs support.

Edited

I don't hate people who are doing well. I am pleased for people who are doing well. I'm generating income as I'm a mental health nurse. I've got a good career which I enjoy and I like spending my spare cash on my daughter, on board games, or going on holiday. Some people think board games are a waste of money, but, it's my money 🤷

Billionaires are a bit beyond 'doing well' and should not exist. I do have vitriol for billionaires, and for politicians who keep money in the hands of the filthy rich. A small percentage of the world owns the vast majority of assets and wealth, and that is wrong.

I have vitriol for people who lack so much humanity that they believe that people who cannot work should just sit at home and suffer and have no joy in life. That is why the welfare state exists. To look after the sick and disabled. Why can't disabled people enjoy a Costa? I don't begrudge my tax being spent in this manner because it's not 'essential'. Also the money goes back to Costa, to, you know, pay it's staff, and to pay taxes. Disabled people should not be left to fester away because they can't work. Do you really want the state monitoring what you spend your money on? Yes everyone should budget enough for the essentials, but what's left over is yours to spend how you see fit. And I also believe everyone should have for a few nice things. Things like the internet and a phone are not luxuries in modern times. We need these things to work, contact health services, for children to access education, and so on.

We're not talking about people who just cba. We're talking about disabled people, some of whom cannot work!!!

I believe people have inherent value and matter because they're human beings who love and feel pain and emotions, not because of what they contribute to the economy.

notwavingbutsinking · 07/02/2025 09:28

Given that it is impossible to design a welfare system that is simultaneously 100% accessible to those that legitimately qualify and 100% inaccessible to those that don't, my personal opinion is that some degree of benefit fraud is simply the price that we have to pay for living in a compassionate society that strives to support its most vulnerable members to lead meaningful lives.

It's a price well worth paying when you stop and think about the alternatives. The idea that we need to plunge everyone who is living on disability benefits into poverty because some people are taking advantage of them is obscene.

LadyKenya · 07/02/2025 09:30

BigSilly · 07/02/2025 09:25

But how? They would not be paying benefits to someone who they know is claiming fraudulently, so the figure an never be anything other than a complete guess!

I see your point, tbf. I don't know how they come to those conclusions, but they must have some idea. They have experts coming up with stats for a lot of things, that people take at face value.

PandoraSox · 07/02/2025 09:39

LadyKenya · 07/02/2025 08:56

Well they must have some idea, hence the figures given.

I bet if the fraud rate was, say, 10% people would happily accept it as fact.

PandoraSox · 07/02/2025 09:41

notwavingbutsinking · 07/02/2025 09:28

Given that it is impossible to design a welfare system that is simultaneously 100% accessible to those that legitimately qualify and 100% inaccessible to those that don't, my personal opinion is that some degree of benefit fraud is simply the price that we have to pay for living in a compassionate society that strives to support its most vulnerable members to lead meaningful lives.

It's a price well worth paying when you stop and think about the alternatives. The idea that we need to plunge everyone who is living on disability benefits into poverty because some people are taking advantage of them is obscene.

Edited

Exactly. Great post.

LadyKenya · 07/02/2025 09:44

Well Said@Ladamesansmerci.

JaneBoleynViscountessRochford · 07/02/2025 09:51

LadyKenya · 07/02/2025 09:27

What I think also gets people’s backs up OP, and I am prepared to be flamed for this but here goes, posts like yours, incredibly long detailing all of your health conditions are, I assume, used to try and show how difficult things are for you but most people genuinely just don’t care and trying to get them to, and somehow change their thoughts by listing your medical issues on MN probably isn’t going to work.

Maybe you should just speak for yourself, and not other people. The OP has long gone, which is probably just as well.

Can you point to where I say I am speaking for everyone?

LadyKenya · 07/02/2025 09:58

JaneBoleynViscountessRochford · 07/02/2025 09:51

Can you point to where I say I am speaking for everyone?

Well who are the 'most people' that you refer to? You did not say 'I' did you? So speak for yourself, and not most people, then. Hth.

Moonlightstars · 07/02/2025 10:26

Brefugee · 05/02/2025 11:33

i know there’s a lot of older people on here who might have more conservative views

Complaining about ableism while doing an ageism? Lovely.

FWIW: most unthinking ableism comes from people with no experience of disabilities. And/or little imaginative empathy.

Some comes as a push-back to their impression that some posters want the world to change to focus on, say, ND children with nothing kedt for their NT children.

Etc etc.

There is absolutely nothing ageist stating that older people are more conservative for stop it is well researched and documented area. I say that as an older person!.

Julen7 · 07/02/2025 10:33

Moonlightstars · 07/02/2025 10:26

There is absolutely nothing ageist stating that older people are more conservative for stop it is well researched and documented area. I say that as an older person!.

No it’s probably more of a sweeping generalisation.

PandoraSox · 07/02/2025 10:39

CantStopBuyingSeeds · 06/02/2025 18:12

Fellow disabled Mumsnetter. The ableism on here is appalling. MNHQ do f all about it though, they just don't care! I cannot tell you the volume of posts I've reported and typed 'ableist' in the details section. Often I add context and explain how I, as a disabled person, find the post disabled yet every single time the response I get is "We're taking a look at this now" which is MNHQ speak for "sorry, not deleting it"
They just don't care

Same. Or they say "challenge it on the thread".

SlapTheMelon · 07/02/2025 10:46

PandoraSox · 07/02/2025 10:39

Same. Or they say "challenge it on the thread".

Can you help me understand which part is ableist when people seem to agree full support for genuinely disabled people but it's the non-genuine ones like my BIL that people have problem with? 3 years on he's still working btw since he tried to fool the PIP assessor and he's fine.

PandoraSox · 07/02/2025 11:02

SlapTheMelon · 07/02/2025 10:46

Can you help me understand which part is ableist when people seem to agree full support for genuinely disabled people but it's the non-genuine ones like my BIL that people have problem with? 3 years on he's still working btw since he tried to fool the PIP assessor and he's fine.

Edited as I remember you from another thread now and what you said. Not engaging.

OMGitsnotgood · 07/02/2025 11:21

I agree that ableism is rife on MN and in society in general. It is wrong and it needs addressing.

I don't have a disability, am an 'older person' and would probably be described as middle class but I can empathise with people living on a pittance for whatever reason. I vote the way I think will help those people, not to reduce my taxes.

You need people like me on your side (I am!), but making sweeping generalisations & assumptions about age and class isn't going to help your cause

HÆLTHEPAIN · 07/02/2025 11:22

SlapTheMelon · 07/02/2025 10:46

Can you help me understand which part is ableist when people seem to agree full support for genuinely disabled people but it's the non-genuine ones like my BIL that people have problem with? 3 years on he's still working btw since he tried to fool the PIP assessor and he's fine.

You know people can work and claim PIP?

TigerRag · 07/02/2025 11:23

BigSilly · 07/02/2025 08:44

I must pull you up on your assertation that only 0.2% of the population receive disability benefits.
This recently published parliamentary briefing says as at February 2024, 10.4% of the population (6.9 million people) received disability benefits. There are only 33 million working people to support these payments.

I'm more concerned about the fraud by the assessors. Why do those claiming there's fraud never mentioned that?

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