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Ableism on mumsnet

174 replies

Kitten1982 · 05/02/2025 10:36

This was my reply on another post but I wanted to share it in its own thread because I’m so shocked and saddened by the comments I see about disability and disability benefits on here. I’ve been so distressed by some of them, I ended up in tears yesterday. The way some mumsnetters talk about disabled people is not only disgusting, it’s downright dangerous and you’re allowing governments to pave the way to leave more of us dead, just like many of us died due to Tory austerity.

i know there’s a lot of older people on here who might have more conservative views and I know there’s a lot of middle class people on here who don’t know what it’s like to rely on such a pittance, and don’t spare a second to think about how little money it is- nor ask themselves why we’d choose to live on too little money, constantly with the precarity of the whims of assessors (who have targets) and governments, rather than work. I have a first class degree and plenty of relative experience to get a job. I was meant to be moving onto my PhD when I developed even more conditions.

This is a plea from the bottom of my heart and the many vulnerable people I campaign with feel unanimously the same. You’re making suffering people suffer more. Think about that.

Anyway, here’s the reply I sent, please read it and inform yourselves before commenting on fake disabled people defrauding the state, or real disabled people not bothering to work…

TBC, that group of people is so small that it’s offensive when people raise it. The UK fraud rate for disability benefits is 0.2%. It’s not worth mentioning and it muddies the water and it allows people to diagnose people as frauds by eye. Like those people who see someone stand up from their wheelchair and assume they’re a fraud because they think all wheelchair users are paralysed. Or people whose disabilities aren’t visible having to deal with friends and family saying stuff like you did x, so you must be able to do y/ you did x yesterday so you can do it today. People who make those examples against chronically ill people aren’t medically qualified and if they were, they’re not the ones who performed their medical history, examination and tests.

if it was another subject, a lot of people would be more careful about allowing sweeping statements to be made about an entire population, based on the actions of less than than half of a half of a percentage point. It’s horribly unfair and it means that disabled people like me and my disabled DC are looked at with suspicion by the general public.

i wrote something a few years back- it was published for scope and was a guest post for Mumsnet. It was called, ‘I’m tired of having to perform my disability.’ And so many people agreed with the article because they experienced the same feelings as me about being paranoid about societal judgements. So a lot of us ending up vocalising our pain when we’d otherwise be silent in it (which makes it easier to cope with) or having to transfer out of my wheelchair in a way society expects and accepts, rather than the way which is comfortable for me. It’s not fair that 0.2% of people who’ve decided to pretend our disabilities are having such an awful impact on the 99.8% who are genuine, not to mention all the genuine people who are wrongly turned down and have to appeal and put in for tribunals, and go through a hell of a lot of work to generate the necessary evidence.

if I only had one of my conditions (uncontrolled epilepsy with cluster seizures- which require emergency meds, but can also make me blind, paralysed, psychotic, incontinent, and wander off in my wheelchair), I would still need to claim disability benefits. But without my other conditions, I would seem just like anyone else between seizures, even though I have to have someone with me who’s trained to use my life saving medication at all times, it wouldn’t impact my other functions outside of the above. And when I am experiencing the above problems, my kids try to keep me inside the house (when I’m trying to run away in fear because the seizures have that impact on me afterwards) and I often just doze in bed, sometimes for a couple of days. I am often left with horrible vomiting and migraines. How would someone know what I look like when I’m very unwell when I’m either in bed or in hospital when it happens? Friends visit me in hospital, but only when I’m on the mend. They’ve seen seizures but only a couple have seen the clusters, and only one has seen my debilitating projectile vomiting condition (cvs- look it up. It goes beyond vomiting and is debilitating) because I don’t want to see people when I feel so unwell. The only reason the one friend who’s seen it has seen it is because she came to see me in hospital sans warning so I was still too ill to want visitors when she came in. So please, everyone, stop judging people as fakers and fit and we’ll because you really don’t have a clue.

i know I'm going to die young because of my health conditions (I’m 42 now and in 6 years alone I’ve been in trauma/ resus 10 times and have to be hospitalised several times a year. I lost a friend af the age of 34 to 2 of the same conditions as me, and another at 45), and I am so scared about whether my sons will be able to figure out the forms after I’m gone. Basically, I’m trying to create a guide for my eldest for how to fill in the forms for each of his brothers (he also has bipolar himself but doesn’t claim anything for it).

Can those (by no means do I only refer to the person I’m quoting but others on this thread) please actually do some research, but about fraudulence with disability benefits, but also relapsing and remitting conditions? In adding suspicions and repeating cliches which don’t apply to many, many disabilities, you’re allowing govts to effectively commit eugenics by starving us to death. Please stop, I beg you all.

As a final note: people rarely get disability benefits for low level mental illness, as otherwise claimed by the govt. My 22yo suffers from bipolar, CPTSD, and very severe social anxiety, as well as inheriting cvs, but he won’t claim, tries his hardest to get in to college for his course, and since he lost his last job for having to be taken into A&E due to throwing up blood whilst still on probation in the job, he’s worked his arse off to find other work (side note: if anyone has something in southern central Hampshire, please message. He’s training as a mechanic but he’s worked in restaurants, helped me to run my former business on the admin side, and he’s carer to 3 people, so he’s very responsible.). I have been disabled for 42 years and only gave up my business a year ago, despite having 12 conditions during the total time I ran this particular business, and other people to whom I have to be a carer- albeit through advice, admin and verbal help.

Just please stop assuming relapsing and remitting conditions are fake or not as bad as the sufferer says; stop saying mental illness can be overcome- some people can, others can’t, it’s not a personal failing; stop assuming your eyes can tell you someone’s whole health experience; and stop assuming disability benefits are too generous (actually some of the lowest in Europe vs cost of living), or that it’s easy to get disability benefits for “scroungers” because they’re hard enough for genuinely disabled people to claim.

Disabled people need the vocal public support of others right now because if they ever do manage to get the green paper through, we could lose PIP to an insufficient catalogue,, and the WCA will turn away more people like me (people with multiple complex conditions). Disabled people are in for having to survive a political storm when all we’ve done to deserve wicked treatment is being disabled. Life’s hard enough as a disabled person when society doesn’t try to tear you down and the govt isn’t trying to force you into starvation. Please be kinder.

OP posts:
menopausalfart · 06/02/2025 19:07

The disability community is a minority but, it's a minority that anyone can fall into.
People don't realise that they're always one step away from having to claim PIP.
My daughter will have to soon as she has DS. I'm not looking forward to the hoops she will have to jump through just to have enough money to survive.

LadyKenya · 06/02/2025 19:20

The disability community is a minority but, it's a minority that anyone can fall into.

Exactly. People would do well to remember this!

LadyKenya · 06/02/2025 20:27

That should have said, some people.

Vincenoirsrootboost · 06/02/2025 20:40

100% agree, op. It’s terrifying and this government are just an out and out disappointment. The tories scapegoated disabled people for over a decade and now labour are doing the same, more fool me for believing they would protect the most vulnerable. The rhetoric around disability is appalling. Scope are running some campaigns, let’s hope we can make our voices heard.

TizerorFizz · 07/02/2025 00:41

I inferred it wasn’t everyone but the numbers are very high. I do think employers will go to some lengths to employ disabled people but it defends on a number of factors, including if the disabled person is reliable. If they are not they get the employers money when absent , not government money, so it’s not sustainable for the employer. Type of job matters too.

Mittens67 · 07/02/2025 01:09

Well said OP.
MN loves a regular disability bashing thread, almost as much as a fat bashing one.
I am lucky enough to have hit the jackpot as I am both disabled and fat.
It can be a very depressing experience reading how so many people really see us. Never mind that I was a nurse in the nhs for decades, now I am just a parasite.
Of course I can always cheer myself up with exotic holidays, designer labels to wear on my hectic social whirl (shopped for with the aid of my clearly unnecessary blue badge) and a giant tv funded by my enormous disability benefits.

Lovebirdslovetea · 07/02/2025 01:21

I also have complex conditions/needs including some kind of chronic bowel problem. Someone asked me why I don’t work then a few months later they got the flu, were in bed with diarrhoea for 2 weeks and fully understood what it’s like to be me on a daily basis 😂

Lovebirdslovetea · 07/02/2025 01:26

GoldVermillion · 06/02/2025 12:31

I have a disabled adult child. We got LWCRA for a year but the nature of their disability means they don't buy anything so their claim was closed as they got too much money. However one of the problems I see is there is no way to suspend benefits for disabled people to have a go at working and see what they can manage. If you aren't sure if you can work, say, 3 days with your chronic condition but would like to try, there's no mechanism. You have to reapply for benefits and reapply for LWCRA and reproduce all the medical information and get another 3 months sick notes from your GP. It means it barely seems worth giving work a go. That needs to change.

apply again and get them to give that money to you to spend on what they need if they’re not spending it

endofthelinefinally · 07/02/2025 01:28

It would be worth everyone making sure they have online access to their medical records and checking that they are correct. I contributed to a thread a while ago when I discovered lots of mistakes in my gp records. The number of people experiencing the same thing was surprising.
I think more and more decisions are going to be based on a quick look at records by unqualified people so we have to be proactive.
One of my consultants is discharging me from the service as there is nothing more they can do for me. I have asked them to write very clearly that I am not cured or better and never will be. Just for clarity.

BettyBardMacDonald · 07/02/2025 03:49

Wow, OP, your first post is so hypocritically ageist.

That totally undermines your argument.

endofthelinefinally · 07/02/2025 04:26

There ought to be a LOT more outrage about people and institutions not paying their taxes. People being given millions of £ to provide PPE and acquiring a massive yacht instead for example. Squandering of public money.

endofthelinefinally · 07/02/2025 04:38

I would much rather that public money went to people who are ill or disabled.

Simonjt · 07/02/2025 06:18

Statistically it is correct that the majority of people become more conservative as they age, statistics aren’t ageism.

I agree completely OP, my husband has a physical disability, I made a small comment about doing something to physically support him and a commenter replied saying he was faking his disability to abuse me and thats what they all do, so in that posters mind disabilities don’t actually even exist.

I remember a poster who was a wheelchair user being told by multiple posters that they shouldn’t expect to use a bus between 8-9 and 4-5 each day as they had no right to.

TigerRag · 07/02/2025 06:31

I do find it odd that everyone claims they / their DH / DC are ND but still ableist

CurlewKate · 07/02/2025 06:36

@Kitten1982 I see your point- but I'm afraid that I'm finding it difficult to get past "i know there’s a lot of older people on here who might have more conservative views and I know there’s a lot of middle class people on here who don’t know what it’s like to rely on such a pittance, and don’t spare a second to think about how little money it is" Can I suggest you edit that bit out?

Seymour5 · 07/02/2025 06:46

CantStopBuyingSeeds · 06/02/2025 18:28

Exactly the same as you. CFS clinic diagnosed me in 2003 and waved me goodbye. I'm on prescription morphine patches which last 4 days and are wonderful and I have a Motability car from my PIP. I'm terrified of what will happen as some days I can’t even keep my eyes open for more than 5 mins. On such days I can’t even get my daughter to school without help, it's awful. Yet other days I can maybe nip to the shop (which is about my limit, I can’t do more than that even on my best days).

Edited

Is 2003 a misprint? If you have had such a debilitating condition for so long, how do you manage to care for a young child? The condition may have got much worse since then, but it must be very difficult.

Soontobe60 · 07/02/2025 06:51

‘Older people with conservative views’ = ageism
’middle class people’ = classism. Do you not think that your so called ‘middle classes’ or older people could also have disabilities?
If you have a valid point to make, then you need to stop with the hyperbole and generalisations. It just puts people off listening.

LadyKenya · 07/02/2025 08:41

BettyBardMacDonald · 07/02/2025 03:49

Wow, OP, your first post is so hypocritically ageist.

That totally undermines your argument.

No, it really does not. Have you not been listening to the voices of the people with disabilities here? Are you refusing to hear, just because you do not like how the OP phrased her post?

BigSilly · 07/02/2025 08:44

I must pull you up on your assertation that only 0.2% of the population receive disability benefits.
This recently published parliamentary briefing says as at February 2024, 10.4% of the population (6.9 million people) received disability benefits. There are only 33 million working people to support these payments.

LadyKenya · 07/02/2025 08:45

endofthelinefinally · 07/02/2025 04:26

There ought to be a LOT more outrage about people and institutions not paying their taxes. People being given millions of £ to provide PPE and acquiring a massive yacht instead for example. Squandering of public money.

But Rishi said he takes such things extremely seriously, at the time, and we all know what action he took, don't we? It all went quiet, and is now a distant memory. Happy sailing hun!

BigSilly · 07/02/2025 08:51

BigSilly · 07/02/2025 08:44

I must pull you up on your assertation that only 0.2% of the population receive disability benefits.
This recently published parliamentary briefing says as at February 2024, 10.4% of the population (6.9 million people) received disability benefits. There are only 33 million working people to support these payments.

Sorry I see you say 0.2% fraud. Although I don'tunderstand how fraud rate can possibly be measured, because by definition you don't know!

LadyKenya · 07/02/2025 08:56

BigSilly · 07/02/2025 08:51

Sorry I see you say 0.2% fraud. Although I don'tunderstand how fraud rate can possibly be measured, because by definition you don't know!

Well they must have some idea, hence the figures given.

Ladamesansmerci · 07/02/2025 08:57

Try and ignore it, OP. Most people can't comprehend what it is like to be disabled and go through the stress of justifying tour existence to DWP to get a paltry amount of money. Most people don't like I'm fear of their only income being stopped suddenly because someone has decided they're not disabled enough. The media and rhetoric in this country around disabled people Ali's disgusting.

As you say, very very few people fraudulently claim disability money. I am far more concerned with billionaires and people hiding money offshore and in farms. Fuck Tories, fuck austerity, and fuck people's views on people on benefits who cba to think about the poverty cycle, generational trauma, lack of education, etc

I work in mental health services, and people with a lot of privilege or people who don't live/work in it can't imagine how difficult some people's lives are and always have been. The DWP and the benefit system cause a lot of harm to people's mental health, yet people seem to be under the impression everyone on benefits is living a life of luxury, lol.

On that note, disabled people and people on benefits are allowed to enjoy things. Disabled people who can't work are allowed to spend their money on a Costa, or going away for the weekend, or at the pub. It's no one's fucking business. In the same way it's no one's business if I live salary to salary and spend all money collecting Funko Pops or something.

Julen7 · 07/02/2025 09:01

Soontobe60 · 07/02/2025 06:51

‘Older people with conservative views’ = ageism
’middle class people’ = classism. Do you not think that your so called ‘middle classes’ or older people could also have disabilities?
If you have a valid point to make, then you need to stop with the hyperbole and generalisations. It just puts people off listening.

This

Ladamesansmerci · 07/02/2025 09:02

CurlewKate · 07/02/2025 06:36

@Kitten1982 I see your point- but I'm afraid that I'm finding it difficult to get past "i know there’s a lot of older people on here who might have more conservative views and I know there’s a lot of middle class people on here who don’t know what it’s like to rely on such a pittance, and don’t spare a second to think about how little money it is" Can I suggest you edit that bit out?

I mean, statistically, people get more conservative as they age. That is backed up by research.

And it's also fact that middle class people have more privilege, and are statistically likely to have been born with more privilege. I can't possibly know what it's like to be a millionaire or black, and a lot of middle class people will not know what it's like to live on Universal Credit. That's fact.

There are of course lots of poor older people and people on disabilities, but statistics would suggest the OP isn't wrong really.