Trump's Theory about the Plane Crash

[NameChangedForThis1985]

Just watched his press conference in absolute disbelief. He's just blamed the air traffic controllers as apparently under the Biden administration they recruited people into the role who weren't intellectually capable. He actually blames diversity criteria and basically box ticking.... 'hiring people with severe intellectual and psychiatric disabilities' - that's a direct quote.

As someone with ASD, anxiety and depression who works in a high level, highly skilled role, I am angry on behalf of anyone like me.

The man is a dangerous liar.

(edited by MNHQ)

And yet I think Trump's press secretary said that US air space is safe.

Despite all these unqualified ATCs who clearly don't have the aptitude to be an ATC

Schrodingers logic here

So you do think that the ATCs they have in place are qualified to do the job they got?

Or are they good enough to do the job? Maybe not the best but good enough?

Which bit do you think is untrue?

Here's the judge's ruling.

casetext.com/case/brigida-v-us-dept-of-transp

This. To stop plane flights would be economically catastrophic as well.

I have accepted for a few years now that flying to America is riskier than ever. It’s not exactly a secret that ‘near misses’ have increased. But I have to go visit my family in the US.

That said, we can (and are!) demanding better of the FAA.

Quite a puzzle isn’t it….

Leaving some of the purely political rhetoric aside US controlling has always been a bit different to the rest of the world but in the last year or two there’s been increasing unhappiness amongst a lot of industry insiders and industry watchers at some goings on in US ATC. It also has to be said that for maybe a year or so prior to the DCA accident there appears to have been an increase in fairly serious incidents, though that might simply be down to statistical clumping.

Certainly arguments over FAA recruitment and whether DEI policies have played a role in a perceived degradation in service have a been going on for quite some time in other more aviation specific places, well before anyone at MN noticed and certainly well before the current POTUS opened his mouth on the issue.

I don't believe that anyone is a DEI fanatics for one.

Are they the best people who applied? No, even if they meet the minimum qualifications.

This might be fine in some roles but for being an ATC is a demanding safety-critical role where we need the best, and only the best, people.

I've read about this before - from a pilot, about how arrogantly they talk to international aircraft.

OTOH - if the best people don't apply but the people who do apply are more than capable of doing the job, is that a problem?

Do you always need the best people - or is it ok to have people who may not have been the best people but who have proven that they can do the job?

I take it you go in planes. Does the airline you fly with have the best pilots or are those pilots with other airlines and the airline you fly with have people who may not be the best but have proven that they meet the standards required?

Same for Doctors, surgeons etc.

You don't believe that anyone on the planet is a DEI fanatic, or anyone in the Obama administration or anyone on the Biden administration or anyone in the US Dept of Transport or anyone in the the FAA or anyone in the HR Dept of the FAA?

I dealt with them for thirty years, European Long Haul
, into/out the major US airports and TBH their manner was inconsistent.

The vast majority controllers were absolutely fine and pleasant, especially those controlling high level airspace at 3 in the morning..

It could be a different case at some of the busy airports like JFK when you could clearly tell the controllers were under pressure and they certainly made it clear from the tone in their voice they were hacked off if they had to read a clearance more than once.

Most laid back controller I ever heard anywhere in the world was a ground controller at SFO when the world was falling apart with delays and taxiways being blocked. He was west coast relaxed, and politeness personified….so the idea all US controllers are rude/incompetent/unhelpful is incorrect.

Another tragedy.

Seems it may not be safe to fly in the US at the moment.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckg0m5n8g0do

@cakeorwine re "if the best people don't apply but the people who do apply are more than capable of doing the job, is that a problem?"

Yes, it is.

We want a meritocracy. That is, selection should be on merit - Those who get the jobs should be students who got the highest grades or people who worked hardest and excelled.

We don't want racism. That is, candidates should not be eliminated based on their skin color.

He sounds competent 👍

Do you think there are social reasons why people don't always get the best grades, get the right opportunities etc in society, so maybe people don't even have the chance to be the best people who apply for the job?

I think where AmateurNoun is going wring is presuming achievement and potential are a perfect match. Someone who has achieved X level (training entry point) from a harder starting point due to systemic barriers may have more potential to achieve at X+2 level (job entry point) than someone who faced no such barriers.

Isn't it sad that this gets overlooked because of trumps misinformation and deflection.

Indeed. By that logic there would only be one pilot in the world because why risk flying with the second best.

Yes thee are social reasons and they should be addressed - financial aid, scholarships, whatever else is causing this disparity in cognitive test results which showe white people did much better at them.

What should never happen is eliminating people who have excelled at the cognitive test because of the color of their skin. Because that is racism.

You should think about this for a minute before replying.

Non US aircraft, beginning to look horribly like loss of control (reasons currently unknown) very shortly after take-off, no reason at this stage to expect this one was a result or consequence of flying in the US or down to US input.

I think where AmateurNoun is going wring is presuming achievement and potential are a perfect match.

And I think where you are going wrong is by not reading what the FAA actually did and promoting direct discrimination based on race. Your comments are incredibly arrogant and ill informed.

To take it closer to home, does anyone think what tru RAF did is OK? I don't

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-66060490.amp

@FoxtrotIndigoSierraHotel re "I value the ability to think critically"

You are not the only one. I value the ability to think critically, just like you, especially in safety critical roles where cognitive skills are essential to competence.

This is exactly why people are shocked by the revelation that candidates who excelled at cognitive tests were eliminated and those who didn't got the coveted jobs thanks to their skin color or another minority status.

What I have read on this subject suggests that a decision was taken about 10 years ago to make ethnic minority hires even if those candidates didn't pass the AT-SAT cognitive test. To this end, a priority was given to a new biographical questionnaire with a 90% fail rate asking how long candidates were unemployed, whether they are more eager or considerate etc.

This did not only lead to a severe drop in competence but also devastated the number of applicants which seems to have led to the current state of understaffing among air controller positions nationwide.

This is a major scandal and I expect especially those who claim to value the ability to think critically to be outraged by it.

I'm not saying that any of this is not true. My point is that as soon as I start to read something, purported to be a statement of fact, that uses language which is emotive and designed to provoke, then I will discredit it and look at alternative sources. There are a number of posters on this thread who think Twitter and opinion pieces are gospel.

Reagan took on a lot of part qualified and retired ATCs after he sacked 11,000 controllers in 1981. They had been on strike - which was illegal as federal employees. Nothing to do with diversity of course. A plane actually crashed in the Potomac the following year. Nobody claimed Reagan was directly responsible of course. That would have been a stretch and in very bad taste. Compare and contrast....