Thread 15 Starmer - Nolite te bastardes carborundorum

[DuncinToffee]

Previous thread

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5244293-thread-14-starmer-the-starmeristas-strike-back?page=40&reply=141334312

He's always been a blazing twatbadger.

That is shameful from Berry.

There doesn't seem to much these people wont lie about to make the headlines, they all seem to support Trump too...

Is there any connection?

Politicians should never undermine the judicial system. Especially not in the media.

That insult is inspired!

Edited as I cant spell...

Re, the Southport trial. In August, Lizzie Dearden wrote a piece explaining how and why some violent attacks are declared terrorism in the UK and others aren't. www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/08.... Its a huge challenge to distinguish between terrorism and violent acts driven by mental illness

I am currently reading her book "Plotters" . I would highly recommend it if you want an in-depth look at terrorism in the UK. It details failed plots, perpetrators' backgrounds, and police and security services responses. It includes interviews with officials, explores (sometimes unorthodox tactics) that MI5 and the counter terrorism police deploy to obtain intelligence and evidence about plots in planning, and how they’ve had to adapt in response to new threats.

He may have been mentally ill, but it seems carefully planned. He's sane enough to plead. His intent seems straightforward in the sense that he went to kill, and acted to do so.

There's mental illness and there is criminal responsibility. They aren't synonymous. It's been years since I read the phrase, but the M'Naghten rules cropped up a lot in my earlier reading days ....

Cost of keeping him in Broadmoor
£13 million
Cost of keeping him in prison
£2 million
That's if he gets 40 years

And??

Jake Berry was a solicitor so he would have known full well that courts set the calendar.

And let's hope he's evil and not insane

The police have released a mugshot taken after his arrest in July - the court artists impressions [as often] seemed a bit 'amateur' but are in fact quite accurate - he really does look as if he's crazed/possessed which wouldn't really help him socially particularly in school

Don't think he's McNaughten myself. He seems to have been very capable and knew what he was doing

I didn't realise that Prevent is a voluntary scheme

Price of civilisation, innit ?

Maybe he was a shit solicitor ? Hence the politics thing.

🤔

Evil is a human construct. Hence it potentially has as many definitions as humans. It also lets society off the hook. Why bother to look into our own failings when we can wave a magic wand, say "evil" and do fuck all ?

Also insane. What is "sane". And is labelling someone "insane" just the other way of washing our hands.

So many questions. So few cats !

Honestly I think it's a function of how he wants to present. I am reading that this boy attacked people with a hockey stick, and armed himself with knives. He seems to have been preoccupied with revenge and violence. The question is really why he was at home. The story of his father dissuading him from going out with a knife is very concerning.

I was a victim of an attack like this, threatened with a knife in a child's playground. Lots of children and families. The man was highly disturbed. I saw him run towards the playground with this huge knife, after he had to been persuaded to leave. I had to tell at everyone to get out. I met the offenders father on the way out of the playground.

But he was able to rob and terrify people without being stopped. The police had to taser him to stop him killing someone. He is in prison now.

Yep and on occasion a person will go to into scheme and pretend to go along with it.

That's awful @bombastix . Must have been terrifying.

What are you suggesting?

Yes it was very frightening. He had attacked several women and children that day. My friend persuaded him to leave. It was surreal as the whole playground continued to play, as we negotiated with this man and I got away to call the police. We knew if we did not remain calm someone could be killed.

He demanded money from a woman and her baby just outside the playground. He then went away. I called the police and watched the entrance and saw him walk back down the road towards the playground.

He should not have been placed with his family. His father treated it as if it were just a daily routine thing. But his son was very dangerous

Sorry to hear that - it must have been very frightening

I'm not sure where you think he should have been - police were called to the house several times and he wasn't arrested/charged, he doesn't sound suitable for a SS secure unit and Southport doesn't even have normal CAMHS let alone in patient specialist forensic CAMHS

He'll not be the only young person like this - there is very very little in the way of services for them

Gosh that's a difficult read.