People who drop out of life

[Dappy777]

Over the last week or so I've had two separate conversations about people who've 'dropped out' of life – no job, no friends, no interest in anything.

Last night, for example, I went for a meal with a family friend who was telling us about his youngest brother. He is 30, lives with their mum, and has no life at all. He has no job, no relationship, no hobbies and very few friends. He spends all day in the flat eating takeaways and drinking, then sleeps most of the afternoon, wakes up around 8pm and sits up all night playing video games. He's never been abroad, and never even been to London (he lives in north Essex).

I had a similar chat on Christmas Day. A neighbour told me about his brother and how he's "given up on life" (as my neighbour put it). Doesn't work, date, socialize, pursue hobbies, nothing.

It isn't so much the not dating or not working that puzzles me. Plenty of people don't want a serious relationship, or kids, or even a job. I can even understand not socialising (I'm a bit of an introvert myself). What I find so puzzling is the lack of interest in life/being alive – you know, just going for a walk on a spring morning, or swimming in the sea, or looking at the stars. Is it depression do you think? I know of quite a few people like this – young people who play video games, smoke weed, and seem to have opted out of the world. I don't know if it's my imagination, but it seems to be more common. Is it just me?

I don't dislike people in general. I just, for a range of reasons, have limited emotional energy for them.

Yesterday I met someone I don't know in a cafe as they needed some support with something I have expertise in and they don't know much about. I did it to help them. I'm happy to stay in touch with them and suggested meeting up after Christmas. Haven't heard from them yet (and they admitted they were often disorganised about that sort of thing) but I won't chase them. If they want to get together and suggest it, I'll meet them. Otherwise we're just passing.

I don't sit at home. I'd like to be home more often. I spend a good chunk of the week in natural environments.

I give of myself to people, I just don't necessarily form a connection.

I've also got to the stage of life where I've decided to reject the concept of having to have friends. I can be different and that's fine. I have a best friend. I have a husband, I have older children and family. That's enough for me at this time.

Perimenopause is sapping my energy. I have a disabled child to care for. If I have limited energy for the world, why push myself? Why burn out? Why not limit myself to make things easier and save precious energy?

But that’s exactly the point….unless you walk, talk, and act in a way that the neurotypical world deems to be acceptable, then you’re NOT given the benefit of the doubt.

I mean, just have a browse through MN. There’s very little empathy for autistic folk from a very large chunk, and many others have well-meaning but misplaced advice. We are supposed to push down our own needs to act in a way that makes others feel comfortable. And so often we have no idea about what to do or say in a spontaneous situation.

Even small talk is such hard work. Remembering to use a filter and not to blurt out any random thought, remembering to organise your face into the right expression while participating in the conversation, and reminding yourself to make eye contact - but not too much. Don’t gesture too much, and watch out for accidentally knocking into things/people with your flailing hands because you have no spatial awareness. And of course, there’s the constant inner monologue about what to say in response. How much is too much? Have you missed the point of the conversation and focussed on the wrong thing? Should you be wrapping the conversation up or would that be rude? How do you politely end the conversation? Remember to look at the other person’s expressions- do they seem interested? Lord, how can you tell if you’re boring them?! And of course, focus on not repeating yourself - it’s very easy to get stuck on the same phrase and inadvertently say the same thing several times in a row.

I mean, that’s just the tip of the iceberg.

My ADHD side helps me in social situations - but then I’m over-exuberant and talk too much. My autistic side overanalyses the conversation and has a vice-like grip of excruciating bits of the conversation that I clearly got wrong.

I don’t hate all people. There are many lovely people out there. I’ve had many delightful interactions.

But good god it’s hard work. Such hard work. And people generally are only accepting providing you’re not too weird. And holding all of that weirdness in and trying hard to act in a socially acceptable way is just exhausting.

It’s impossible to make friends. I’m funny and kind (so everyone says). But how you make the leap from casual acquaintance to good friend is just beyond me.

I have a couple of lovely friends. Before I ever meet up with them I have to prepare conversations in my head so I know what we’re going to talk about. I didn’t realise that other people don’t do this. I thought it was normal to have a mental checklist of topics to discuss so that there aren’t any awkward silences.

The world isn’t kind to people who are different. And unless you’re constantly on the receiving end you’ll never have any idea how exclusionary and unkind society as a whole can be.

My cousin is like this. He must be in his mid-late 50s now. He was outgoing and ‘normal’ (for want of a better word) in his childhood and early 20s as far as I’m aware (I’m at least 10-15 years younger). Not sure what happened exactly but he just retreated from life. He still lives at home with his mum who is now in her mid 80s. He’s definitely had some kind of mental health crisis. It’s really sad. My other cousins, his siblings, are all highly successful.

@mootlepip thank you. It means a lot that you commented just to say 'I can relate'. It's a very lonely existence..... and then dealing with people discussing the flaws of people who can't keep up....that's heartbreaking. So thank you for your kind validation of my experience.

But how do you define highly successful? Surely not limited to being in 9-5 employment as a measure of success?

Omg I really feel like I should end my life now. This thread is horrific. It is all the things that I worry that people are saying about me behind my back.

I have a nice life. I have a free council flat. I have free money (benefits). I have all the time to do whatever I want. I have no responsibilities.

I had a job I loved that I sacrificed and studied for. I'm not over loosing it and I'm so sad I can't do it anymore. It was a job in the public sector helping people.

I have no responsibilities because I have no partner or children. I've been single for over 15 years due to specific nd/mh issues. I wanted children and a family, I have to go without.

I still have the same friends and they love me the same. But it's heartbreaking knowing that I will never have the things they have, it's not because I'm lazy. It's because I'm different. They don't judge me.

I won't bore you with more of the same...

Every day I feel that me remaining alive is nothing but a burden. Can anyone here who has spoken critically about people who have opted out, please tell me any reason why I should be alive?

Is there any reason for a loser who has dropped out of life, to make the effort to stay alive?

Why don't drop outs , like myself, stop taking from worthwhile people, stop manipulating, stop feigning mental health or neurodiversity issues.

WHY DONT WE JUST KILL OURSELVES?

If you don't fit in then fuck off.

Your friends don't judge you - focus on people like that. Forget those who don't understand. Maybe one day they will since life is unpredictable.

You make a difference in the life of your friends and in those who you encounter. There are more ways to contribute to society than employment (and some ways are more valuable).

If you are in a time where you need to be supported, then be glad we live in a society where people are supported in hard times. For some people it's enough to just get up that day for a time. Again, maybe one day the critics will understand.

You have value that is bigger than the narrow way some people measure it (possibly due to lack of life experience).

If I kill myself now, it will free up a council flat, for someone who is going to contribute to society, to interact with other people, who will work and pay taxes, rather than taking. Someone that other people will find pleasant and easy to be around.

@SecretSoul thank you for your most recent and articulate post. My eldest is very much autistic and struggles socially for all these reasons.

@worriedhidinginplainsight please ignore all the unhelpful comments from those without empathy of what it might be like to be a different person. You are worth so much more than 'what job you're doing' - I don't see that as a measure of success at all. And just note - quite often I'm not pleasant or easy to be around (I blame the menopause and ND - but also now don't give a shit ) because no one is all the time - they can suck it up!!

ie no one is pleasant or easy all the time

People who 'drop out of life' should be put in to stocks in the village square. After being beaten they should be chased out of town. There they will either come to their senses, realise they were being lazy and manipulate and get a job and reintegrate. Or, they will continue to be complete and utter loosers, trash of society, worthless rubbish, and die. Either way, it's a win win for the well adjusted, neurotypical, respectable, contributing, tax payers.

.......and no it doesn't matter if they used to live a product life. If it's been going on for over a year, they have clearly made a decision and they should be beaten out of town

Really interesting thread. There was a good discussion of this a couple of days ago in relation to falling birth rates:

Cliffs:

The biggest group who do are involuntarily childlessness are low-status men young men.

As women have become more highly educated, they are seeking partners who have a similar or higher status to them.

Therefore, there are a lot of low-status young men struggling to find relationships and therefore disengage from society and end up going down gaming/drugs/Andrew Tait rabbit holes.

We are somewhat lucky they are locked in their bedrooms rather than roaming the streets, although obviously neither outcome is optimal for the individuals or society.

Are you having any treatment? Do you want treatment?

I have a quiet life but am happy to do so and happy to arrange it so.
I'm retired, I have a few friends and I have a couple of hobbies.
I stay home mainly but that is 3 acres of land with poultry and a pony.
The heat is so bad that with my English Rose skin, staying inside is my only option.
So I am active on the Internet quite a bit to stay in touch with 'the rest of the world'.

Because you don't know what tomorrow will bring. Life can change dramatically in a short space of time, and you don't know what good/happy might be around the corner.

I think it's not outside influences solely to blame . Life changes and humans have adapted for generations . Resilience is a skill most have to a lesser or greater degree .

I think what seems apparent in these stories is ND particularly in males . To me it's very simple . ND people are giving birth to children with ND and often more severe forms . Whether it's diagnosed or not diagnosed it's not possible to force someone to live a certain way when it's not a choice they're making . I think the issue is more with NT people looking in with pity thinking what sad little lives when in reality the person is often happy with their ' small' life . I think the main problems are when this ' small ' life impacts others eg adult children who can never leave childhood bedrooms or are behaviourally very difficult . I think we just have to realise and accept that some people want different lives and their version of happiness is not what we might choose for ourselves .

Interesting conversation.

It's not as new as you all seem to think. Timothy Leary's siren call of 1967 inspired a whole lot of dropping out over the following ten years. He said:

"Turn on" meant go within to activate your neural and genetic equipment. Become sensitive to the many and various levels of consciousness and the specific triggers engaging them. Drugs were one way to accomplish this end.

"Tune in" meant interact harmoniously with the world around you—externalize, materialize, express your new internal perspectives.

"Drop out" suggested an active, selective, graceful process of detachment from involuntary or unconscious commitments. "Drop Out" meant self-reliance, a discovery of one's singularity, a commitment to mobility, choice, and change.

Unhappily, my explanations of this sequence of personal development are often misinterpreted to mean "Get stoned and abandon all constructive activity".

Leary himself predicted that computers would come to replace drugs as a means of avoiding the world.

@MeTooOverHere wow, I would love three acres! I might want to stay alive and embrace my reclusiveness. I live in the middle of a built up inner city area, where it is never ever quiet, not even at 3am.....because the city council lets business do what they want, when they want, because they have money.

I can't tell if this is sarcasm or not. I'm sorry if I offended you. I genuinely can relate and I'm so exhausted by it all that I don't have many words to say without feeling the crush of it.
I'm sorry you feel a similar way to me. I genuinely can't find the words. I used to be a proficient writer, would you believe.

Why are there so many posts in here about parents getting their children married off (or failing to)?!

I don't know a single person whose parents had any hand in their relationships, with the exception of one Muslim friend who was introduced to his wife and does not fit the description in the OP at all.

It's not a thing.

The only thing is you assume that it’s sad and that they’re miserable- that they have no hobbies- but if gaming and tv are their hobbies, and they have siblings or parents who check on them, and have everything they need (in terms of not needing much), then maybe it’s not sad. I’d also guess they’re nd, but possibly more content than those of us juggling, striving and exhausted! (I know two people like this, both nd, both tried in 20s and jobs and friends eluded them, one let down in life as bullied by a lot of people over size- small and thin) both lovely people, both happy to be home and only see the people linked to the household. One has told me they feel bad I’m always on the go)

OP, my siblings are similar I feel in the way they don’t have interest in being with partners and they don’t have kids. They live in a bubble of predictably. Being introverted and an anxious personality myself, I find it strange how we are very similar but different in the way I have a husband and a DC. I think what motivates someone is unique person-to-person and an interesting topic.

My eldest is like this,he's mid 20s and never leaves the house ,he has bad anxiety and autism and some mild learning difficulties..he's got a lot of qualifications,,but just can't manage daily life with a huge amount of support

With out a huge level of support..

Just a hug.