People who drop out of life

[Dappy777]

Over the last week or so I've had two separate conversations about people who've 'dropped out' of life – no job, no friends, no interest in anything.

Last night, for example, I went for a meal with a family friend who was telling us about his youngest brother. He is 30, lives with their mum, and has no life at all. He has no job, no relationship, no hobbies and very few friends. He spends all day in the flat eating takeaways and drinking, then sleeps most of the afternoon, wakes up around 8pm and sits up all night playing video games. He's never been abroad, and never even been to London (he lives in north Essex).

I had a similar chat on Christmas Day. A neighbour told me about his brother and how he's "given up on life" (as my neighbour put it). Doesn't work, date, socialize, pursue hobbies, nothing.

It isn't so much the not dating or not working that puzzles me. Plenty of people don't want a serious relationship, or kids, or even a job. I can even understand not socialising (I'm a bit of an introvert myself). What I find so puzzling is the lack of interest in life/being alive – you know, just going for a walk on a spring morning, or swimming in the sea, or looking at the stars. Is it depression do you think? I know of quite a few people like this – young people who play video games, smoke weed, and seem to have opted out of the world. I don't know if it's my imagination, but it seems to be more common. Is it just me?

My brother is similar. Lives alone in a rented cottage miles from anywhere. He goes to work, but has no friends or hobbies ( apart from the internet and cycling). He has no interest in seeing family members either.

My dad was a Carmelite before he became my dad. It was a contemplative order. There are those who are more in the community like Franciscans, and those who are more cloistered.

He did work, but there was a lot of silent time, some days they spoke only in Latin.

Genuine non-sarcastic question. What does “taking part in society” mean?

Do you not find nature, the world, other cultures, life in general fascinating though? I mean, surely life can't be that banal or pointless that there literally is no point? (Which reminds me a bit about the theme in Albert Camus' novel "L'Etranger" 😐🤔)

Me too scutterbug. I'm lucky in that I have a partner and a son, but my partner is about 20 years older and his health has declined the last few years and I'm so scared he's going to die and leave me by myself (I know that sounds selfish, I do also love and care for him very much for himself, not just as a support person).

I don't have any contact with any other family members so it's just my partner and my son.
I have no job, hobbies, friends or life outside my home. I'd love to start going to church but I just can't,
I have severe social anxiety but I have managed to get used to grocery shopping and taking my son to certain activities etc. Apart from that I really only leave the house to do the school run and that daily school run absolutely drains me. Any little interaction is replayed over and over and standing around in the playground among all the parents feels like an eternity to me. I suffer headaches and my jaw is always locking from clenching my teeth and I just feel shattered most days.

Anyway, I just wanted to say that I know it's very difficult sometimes but you aren't alone in living this way ❤️

It’s ‘hard to treat’ because mental health services are underfunded, understaffed and remains the Cinderella service of the NHS. People give up on life for the most part, when it feels like life has given up on them.

I also just want to add, incase anyone reads my post and worries about my son. That I'm very conscious about not passing my social anxiety on to my son as a sort of learned behaviour. My partner and I have always encouraged him with extra curricular activities, he is happy and content at school and he is thankfully a pretty confident little boy.

I have to say, i used to tell myself regarding brain related illness that I'd never use any brain chemical altering meds, but when I had a breakdown after my head injury and post concussion syndrome a decade ago, I had no choice but to use some psychotropic drugs. Unfortunately these disagreed extremely badly with me and harmed me permanently, leaving me with a medication induced neurological involuntary movement disorder called tardive dyskinesia.

I've now, as they say most, being "once bitten and twice shy", reverted to my original ways of not using brain altering drugs. So I guess in some ways, I'm of a similar opinion to your parents, but for different reasons though.

Life is hard work sometimes and I can see why someone might need medical help with mental health problems, but I'm pretty sure I'd rather stick to talking therapies unless it was life or death.

Not that poster but I feel exactly the same. I can objectively say that nature is nice but it doesn't make me feel anything, as I assume it does with others. Maybe when I was a teenager for brief periods. Then again I remember lying in a field in the sun crying my eyes out age 12 because I was so depressed. No reason for it, just wasn't happy. I think people just have chemicals that make them happy and I never did. In other words it's all fake. I mean this in a purely philosophical way, not that I'm assigning meaning (or not) to other people's lives IYSWIM. But yes it's pointless really. This place is just a rock, everything of importance (relationships, achievements, special occasions, purpose etc.) has been assigned or invented by humans.

I don't view myself as mentally ill though, which I'm sure is controversial. I'm not psychotic, I'm not having a breakdown, I just don't enjoy anything. To take antidepressants would be faking it and being someone I'm not (my personal view) and I'm too comfortable with the way I feel to risk ADs messing me up further. There are many worse things in life than merely being miserable.

I also don’t think GPs in general have a clue about depression or mental health. All they know is drugs.

Wow, @BeAzureAnt !

My point is just that life in a religious order isn’t necessarily restful, there are definite expectations of work and integrating with the norms of the religious community, even if you don’t verbally communicate much.

I can see how in the distant past, when it wasn’t uncommon to join religious orders, how it would suit many people, as long as they could accept the lack of personal choice and the structure.

@Firefly1987 Sorry if you’ve already answered this question, but have you ever tried anti-depressants? Being on a low dose of one that suits me (I had to try a couple of types) has transformed my life. I’m still diagnosed with GAD, but it doesn’t affect me the way it used to.

"I mean this in a purely philosophical way, not that I'm assigning meaning (or not) to other people's lives IYSWIM. But yes it's pointless really. This place is just a rock, everything of importance (relationships, achievements, special occasions, purpose etc.) has been assigned or invented by humans". But this is of course true. Everyone knows this on a certain level of (un)conciousness, no matter what their education, politics, religion or philosopy. Everyone knows they are mortal and irrelevant in the grand scheme of the universe. So they take a stance on how they're goint to deal with it. And you are taking a stance just like everyone else. You are taking the stance to find it miserable and I don't think that's any better or worse than taking a stance to find it terrifying, curious, thrilling, challenging, unacceptable, liberating, ludicrous, disappointing, devastating...

"I can objectively say that nature is nice but it doesn't make me feel anything". That is not an objective statement. It is wholly subjective and none the less valid for it.

No I was close to going on them recently, more for anxiety than anything but (ironically) I'm too anxious of the potential side-effects. Glad they're working for you though. I've got therapy to try out first, like a PP I'd rather explore that first and medication would be a last resort. Everything has side effects right? I've eaten poorly for years but just recently changed my diet in a big way and started exercising so hoping this has some effect.

@Firefly1987 Im lucky that I haven’t experienced side effects, been on a low does for about six years now. I did come off them a couple of years ago, but the anxiety came back so I started again.

What I like about them is that I can get on with my life now- no more panic attacks, unexplained crying and feeling anxious alot of the time. I still feel scared sometimes, just not as extreme and I can generally overcome it. It’s so liberating.

I have no friends, no active hobbies. I'm very fortunate to have a beautiful family and quite a good job with a couple of lovely colleagues. I have no friends though, I'm too flaky, the worst friend anyone could wish for. Perhaps I should make a New Year's resolution to make a friend and keep them and be nice. I'm not a very nice person to have as a friend though. Perhaps I should keep it to myself!!

Perhaps I should keep it to myself!!

@SwirlyShirly Honestly - perhaps you should unless you’re truly willing to work on changing and being a decent friend as per your proposed NY resolution.

There are some people from my past I wish had that self-awareness and just didn’t bother with friendships, but I don’t think they’re honest enough to realise they just do themselves and others a disservice by the way they handle friendships.

@SwirlyShirly sounds like your first step is therapy, to explore the fact that you are thinking about whether you should try again at making a friend but believe you are not a very nice person to have as a friend.

Maybe they don't want a life. It's a parents dream to have successful kids, the kids didn't ask to be born and end up wage slaving in a job they hate 40 hours a week just because they were unlucky enough to find themselves on this planet.

@stargirl1701

FFS another one who can't read.

"50+" which for the hard of thinking includes 60s 70s 80s and 90s years olds. There's always going to be some with old fashioned attitudes even if they didn't grow up with those attitudes, they get it off their parents. No I don't mean 1950s stepford wives. I mean the more subtle modern version, you know, the one that talks about equality whilst simultaneously putting up with a lot that's not equal at all and some that's downright shitty, especially from their partners, but also from brothers, uncles, men in general. The men-basically-do-what-they-want-and-women-put-up-with-it-if-they-can attitude is alive and kicking, I have found. There's thread after thread after thread on here of women doing exactly that and venting about it or wondering if they're unreasonable to feel let down or upset. I've seen it especially in older women 50+ IRL. No not all older women (and I never said that), but enough that I've noticed it. I'm sure plenty would deny it if you asked them, yet their small daily comments and actions and lifestyle choices (to put up with shit) say otherwise. Even the ladette culture you mention was just women dumbing themselves down to men's level, to gain an illusion of equality that a lot of them didn't have. Lots growing up in that era didn't even engage in ladette culture anyway. Also not everyone went to university, plenty left school at 15, as soon as their NI number came through, with no qualifications and got a job.
.

I CBA replying to any more of you who CBA to actually read a post properly.

Noted. I know my issues and what caused them. I'll keep to myself

@SwirlyShirly you don't need to reply/explain of course (unless you want to) but I mentioned two things to explore - one being what you have said are your "issues" and their causes regarding being a not nice friend... and the other was, that you were thinking maybe you should try again to make friends. You didn't address why you were having that thought, but it was enough of a thought for you - however flippantly - to put into words and post on this thread. And then to ignore. That seems to me like something to think about a bit more, but that's just me of course.

@chippedikeafurniture my ND partner's parents kicked him out at 16 and left him to get on with things/life. They couldnt/didnt want to handle the autism. Actually he then got into some seriously bad stuff but somehow turned his life into something very positive years later without any help from them. Someone who is maybe less high functioning/fragile could easily have gone down the routes described here. He's worked really hard to get on top of the challenges his ND has had for him. But I can see its a daily struggle.

With family members who were very supportive with their own ND children i can see these now older children in their 40s are similar to what's described here in that the parents have inadvertently enabled them. They live very solitary lives, happy but in a bubble. No relationships, no real work, just floating along.

With family with younger ND kids, they seem to diagnose very early and are trying to get as much support as available.

I was kicked out at 16 and not working was not even considered an option then. I worked hard, often hating every moment, until I retired. If my parents had allowed me to drop out, I'm sure I would have, because my nature is just bookish and reclusive. When I retired I stopped answering the door and using a telephone. I live life on my own terms and lead a selfish life doing as I please, with complete freedom. Am a happy loner. I can totally understand why so many people are opting to do this.

The problem is economic inactivity in some deprived towns is around 46.8%, - half of all people over 16 in some areas are economically inactive and one in five have never had a job. Obviously this is not sustainable and economic collapse is inevitable.

Aside from Japan and Britain, how bad is it in other countries? What are they doing there that we aren't?