People who drop out of life

[Dappy777]

Over the last week or so I've had two separate conversations about people who've 'dropped out' of life – no job, no friends, no interest in anything.

Last night, for example, I went for a meal with a family friend who was telling us about his youngest brother. He is 30, lives with their mum, and has no life at all. He has no job, no relationship, no hobbies and very few friends. He spends all day in the flat eating takeaways and drinking, then sleeps most of the afternoon, wakes up around 8pm and sits up all night playing video games. He's never been abroad, and never even been to London (he lives in north Essex).

I had a similar chat on Christmas Day. A neighbour told me about his brother and how he's "given up on life" (as my neighbour put it). Doesn't work, date, socialize, pursue hobbies, nothing.

It isn't so much the not dating or not working that puzzles me. Plenty of people don't want a serious relationship, or kids, or even a job. I can even understand not socialising (I'm a bit of an introvert myself). What I find so puzzling is the lack of interest in life/being alive – you know, just going for a walk on a spring morning, or swimming in the sea, or looking at the stars. Is it depression do you think? I know of quite a few people like this – young people who play video games, smoke weed, and seem to have opted out of the world. I don't know if it's my imagination, but it seems to be more common. Is it just me?

In many ways this sounds like me. I can honestly say I'd hate a big group of friends. I can't be doing with all the bitching and jealousy and competition. In general, most people make me feel worse not better. Last year I made a massive effort to "get out and meet new people," as therapists always advise. I joined a French class, an Italian class, two art classes and a course at the adult education centre. Most of the people I met were nice enough, but it didn't make me happy. In general, I ended up dreading the classes and feeling relieved when they were over. I'm just not a people person. I find socialising exhausting, overwhelming and stressful. I don't crave it, and I don't seem to get as much out of it as others.

I would think it is ill mental health and that it seems to have gone undiagnosed. If you’re really suffering it’s hard to take pleasure in the simple things like a spring morning. I’ve had a bad year and wasn’t seeing the beauty in things or enjoying very much, as I was overwhelmed but starting the year off as I mean to go on, so roll on 2025. If this had gone on for years, it’d be a very steep hill to climb and possibly not easy to just get out there for a walk let alone apply for jobs, interview and then do the job…and date and have hobbies.

I think situations can quickly spiral if no one is really looking out for you.

Not every town or village has a Wetherspoon 🤦‍♀️

You’re very wise @joliefolle. You could run yourself into the ground trying to support your sibling and their family, but that won’t help anyone longterm.

@Beauty3102 I know. If you live in a posh little village, everywhere will be megabucks

I really empathize with you. I'm an introvert myself and suffered crippling social anxiety/avoidant personality when I was young. I still find social interaction hard and draining. But when I can get away from the noise and greed and competition and cars and endless f-ing house building, I'm kind of happy. If I'm honest, it's people, noise and overcrowding that makes me miserable, not life. When I'm on my own, looking up at the stars, or walking in the woods, or reading a book, I'm very happy indeed. If I didn't need to work, and there weren't so many goddam people, and I could spend my life reading and walking in the countryside, I'd be fine.

Highly intelligent nephew who hasn’t done anything productive and is now heading for 40. Enabled by his grandmother- happy to join in all big family events and scrounge though. Such a waste - he is utterly brilliant at mathematics. If everyone opted out like this society in the UK would crumble.

It is a big reason DH and I moved to the countryside. It is so much more peaceful. Can you get a WFH position and move to somewhere more rural? It is a lot better to wake up to birdsong than traffic noise for sure.

Humans aren’t really designed to live in constant noise and to be separated from nature. We are primates…we like trees.

I know what you mean. I wouldn't go so far as to say I'd happily never speak to anyone again, but for sure most people aren't worth the effort.

The world is cruel to shy, introverted young people. My teens were a living hell. There was so much pressure to go out and have fun and so on. That's fine if you're a confident extrovert. But when you're an awkward introvert, it's awful. I felt to so miserable and ashamed in my teens and 20s. Now, in my 40s, no one gives a sh** what I do. It's bliss.

Well, a capitalist society would crumble.

Is he supposed to not join with the family for events? What do you think?

I certainly wouldn't describe you as having dropped out or given up. I totally agree that it comes down to personality. We are far too intolerant of difference. What really counts is happiness and fulfilment. I was thinking more of young people (especially young men) who not only drop out of the system, but seem to have no interest in anything – nature, books, art, animals, science...nothing.

Interesting thread and some thoughtful responses.

ND and MH issues undoubtedly play a part in some cases, but thinking of things in that way tends to lock us into ideas about unchanging mental, emotional or personality "states" that can be difficult to find a way out of. This ignores the extent to which actions (or inactions), chains of cause and effect and just uncontrollable events piling one on top of another can lead people, over time, to such a state.

Many people in their late teens and early twenties "launch" in a way that is more chaotic and unpredictable than the standard narrative of school > uni or training > job, house, relationship etc. In most cases that works out fine: you have a few gaps on your CV, a troublesome debt you eventually repay, or a dysfunctional relationship that takes a while to recover from, but in time these things fade into history.

But I think the line between that kind of manageable chaos and long term failure to launch may be thinner than many imagine. Fail your A Levels, and maybe you get your shit together and retake them, or get some other qualification. Or maybe that just never... quite... happens. Fuck up in a job and get fired, maybe you get another job. Or maybe you're unemployed for a year, waste some time and get up to some trouble before finally getting another job that actually suits you better and gets you going. Or maybe it takes two years, or five? What if it takes ten?

You've then got no CV, no qualifications, nothing to show a potential employer. Little chance of having a relationship as you're a broke no hoper living with your mum. You're now in your 30s with absolutely nothing to show for your life - clearly that's going to make you depressed. Being around other people, who you've never learnt to understand by working with them and whose negative judgment of you you can feel, is going to make you anxious. So yeah, you have MH issues - depression, anxiety, social anxiety or maybe even ASD tendencies.

I'm not sure that's a very informative description of how you got to where you are though, or how to get out of it. It might have more to do with just chains of cause and effect - the cumulative power of a million day to day decisions about whether to get up in the morning, whether to answer that email, whether to speak to that person at the bus stop...

This is not a capitalist dialectic. Marx said "from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs". It revolves around giving something back and not just taking, unless of course you are for medical/MH reasons unable to.

My view is coloured by an uncle who had schizoprenia, diagnosed in the 50s. He worked when he could, thoughout his life and was well regarded in those jobs. I can't imagine how hard it was for him on the horrible drugs he was on to do so, but he did.

If everyone retreated to their parent's spare room because it was easier for them, it isn't capitalism that would crumble, but society itself.

I hope you are getting help from your GP/mental health team. My heart goes out to you. The Samaritans helpline number is 116 123 if you need to reach out. Hope 2025 is a better year for you x

I wouldn’t mind this to be honest ,especially when life has got particularly overwhelming or stressful and just wanting peace. If the nunnery is by the sea even better !

Anxiety is awful to live with so I feel for you. I got myself out of it only for it to take over my youngest daughter’s life. It’s been a challenge.
i hope you have the help and support you need

I think living in a religious community is about one of the hardest things anyone can do. It isn't about floating around in nice black clothes sniffing flowers but having to interact, live with, tolerate, a very limited group of people (not of your choosing) 24/7.

I guess so but I have had a breakdown and I did lose my peace of mind so I was looking for a certain kind of peace . A faith something that would have helped me.

I think the regulated life would suit some people.

Wishing you peace and health @kerstina

This

You could join one of the silent, meditative, cloistered communities. Limited interaction that way.

People do this with some regularly with Buddhism.

So 40s is younger, but we used to have neighbours where the retired age son lived with his elderly mother. She was in her 90s and fit as anything. I didn't think twice about it as I saw them more as room mates. I don't know if he ever left home or not before that. Having someone to share expenses and house work can be useful, even just for company, so why not a member of family if it suits both people's needs?

More recently I knew a woman in her 80s who lived with her daughter in her 60s. Both were widows. They were also more like room mates, though the daughter did provide some care. I don't see anything wrong with that either. It meets a need for both of them and they were quite happy.

I know that's a different scenario to your first post, but family members living together isn't necessarily a problem.

Yes, very true. I'd add that not all extroverts and so-called 'winners' are happy. I once heard a therapist say that people too often confuse success with happiness. They are taught to strive for the beautiful partner, big house and high status career. But when they get these things they find they're not happy at all (though obviously it depends on the individual).

One thing I've noticed is that noisy, pushy extroverts often burn out in middle-age. Sometimes they even collapse into depression. Introverts are more likely to be self-aware and to work on themselves. They also tend to have a richer inner life, which they can fall back on. The successful extrovert often reaches 40 or 50 and thinks "Is this it?"

Now why didn’t I think of that?!

FFS, I am under the CMHT. I have a psych and care coordinator. I’ve been sectioned multiple times. I am well known to services.