People who drop out of life

[Dappy777]

Over the last week or so I've had two separate conversations about people who've 'dropped out' of life – no job, no friends, no interest in anything.

Last night, for example, I went for a meal with a family friend who was telling us about his youngest brother. He is 30, lives with their mum, and has no life at all. He has no job, no relationship, no hobbies and very few friends. He spends all day in the flat eating takeaways and drinking, then sleeps most of the afternoon, wakes up around 8pm and sits up all night playing video games. He's never been abroad, and never even been to London (he lives in north Essex).

I had a similar chat on Christmas Day. A neighbour told me about his brother and how he's "given up on life" (as my neighbour put it). Doesn't work, date, socialize, pursue hobbies, nothing.

It isn't so much the not dating or not working that puzzles me. Plenty of people don't want a serious relationship, or kids, or even a job. I can even understand not socialising (I'm a bit of an introvert myself). What I find so puzzling is the lack of interest in life/being alive – you know, just going for a walk on a spring morning, or swimming in the sea, or looking at the stars. Is it depression do you think? I know of quite a few people like this – young people who play video games, smoke weed, and seem to have opted out of the world. I don't know if it's my imagination, but it seems to be more common. Is it just me?

@LakieLady That's so awful, I can't imagine the confusion etc alongside the grief. I'm so sorry

This: it's an important distinction.

This is, as said above, a really interesting thread. What is fully opting IN to life, I wonder? What does that mean or look like? It means conventional, successful, busy, extroverted and popular, doesnt it? Not a brain cell out of place, eh? You might be absolutely shattered, just going through the motions. You might be no more fulfilled than the opted-outers, not really. But your social status will be higher, and judgement will be less. And that's the truly important thing.

I'm sorry you are having such a tough time. Hopefully you have spoken to your GP about something they can do to help? I experienced severe anxiety going through peri menopause. 5htp helped me a lot (it doesn't work for everyone and don't take if you are already on anxiety medication). I hope things get better.

Thank you for a thought provoking thread.

There have always been people with agoraphobia, and always been people who enjoyed what some would see as a small life. But parents in the past did not allow their children to just stay in the bedroom, not working, not doing anything.

I’ve been reading through the thread and couldn’t not comment on this @Wnmm you are genuinely incredible and I’m so sorry for the despicable abuse you’ve had to endure. I so hope you are safe and happy now. You deserve a lifetime of peace.

My DH had severe agoraphobia as a teenager, and didn't go to college or university. He did start work straight after he left school, which was great for him, but I'm pretty sure he is a bit autistic but never diagnosed.

His DM was particularly nice when she said he was "a major disappointment" to her. (!) 😳 I'm sure he's been through life just trying to avoid all sorts of situations where he feels so uncomfortable, especially when it comes to interactions with others etc (he always says he can't stand to be around others etc and commuting into London at one point was his idea of hell. He did get made redundant and now WFH so it's much better in that respect).

As for the other point about NT people also being very insular etc, I agree it can happen gradually and isn't productive to be like that all the time. My DBIL is a good example, going from an employed job to being unemployed, living on his own surviving on the money he makes online trading cryptocurrency etc. It's a bit of a bachelor existence and he seems to have no time for my family or DH any more. It's a shame.😢

Maybe the BIL is undiagnosed, unsupported and untreated ND too as it runs in families? Do their DF and DM have ND traits?

It's awful but I think that's what kept me in work at that time. I knew I'd be judged even more if I was unemployed. I was treated completely differently when I moved out of my parents house even though I didn't really change as a person.

What I wonder now a decade or so on from that time is what's changed? When I sought advice for loneliness and social isolation it was just vague stuff like join a group or volunteer. This approach didn't work for me as there wasn't much going on in my area. Is there better advice out there for lonely people that maybe takes into account the barriers some can have for opting IN?

I've heard of something called social prescribing, is that something they try for people in this situation?

@WhatNoRaisins social prescribers are attached to many GP surgeries. They tell you about local groups running that would help you improve your mental or physical health. They absolutely would help you.
In my area I have heard people saying there is nothing going on when there is loads going on. But a lot of what is happening is not advertised on the internet.

I’m replying to the top part of your post where you agree with the other poster that people aren’t trying hard enough and say that you managed it.

That sort of signposting could be useful. I did spend quite a lot of time looking for potential groups and avenues in my area but I only really had the internet.

I do think a real problem for adults living at home is that there is still a lot of judgment. We tell people in this situation to put themselves out there but if they do and end up feeling rejected or can't find their peers it's very off putting.

I’m under the community mental health team. I have a psychiatrist and a care coordinator. I’m awaiting psychological input (2 year wait). I was diagnosed autistic recently.
My GP leaves the CMHT to deal with me as I’m too complex for them apparently,

A utilitarian philosophy sees personhood as involving self-awareness, self-control, a sense of the future, a sense of the past, the capacity to relate to others, concern for others, communication and curiosity. Person-centred therapy tends to focus on compassion, creativity, curiosity, courage, connectedness, clarity, persistence, perspective, playfulness. Religions focus on gratutide, humility and again, concern for others. In my view these are impossible lists but opting IN is working out how you can access some of these aspects of being human on a daily basis. As you rightly point out, going through the motions of busy, busy, busy, award-winning, instagram-worthy, I-don't-know-how-she-does-it remarkable is another way of avoiding being fully present in life.

Not all people. Some people.

Lost track of the thread a bit, was on earlier, very interested in what @joliefolle and @rachelhere are saying - @rachelhere when you say "And that's the truly important thing" - to whom? I'd like to understand what you meant, to whom is that the truly important thing?

I can't at all speak for rachelhere but what I took from the discussion was that some people will break themselves by leading exhausting lives (successful, busy, popular, perfectionist, life and soul of the party) in order to avoid harsh judgement from the social group. You could argue that the core of unconscious shame (not guilt) as being the unveiling of what we try to mask and the risk of exclusion from the social group, the threat to survival, that this poses. People who 'drop out of life' opt to bypass judgement and to control the threat of exclusion by enacting it themselves. Also, people can't see them so no need to wear the mask and constantly worrying it will slip. Others who desperately opt IN, IN, IN by today's standards are likely to be doing the same, just in a wholly different way, by wearing the mask 24-7, but it is a way that is 'useful' for others and so gets praised.

@rachelhere I think it’s often a question of survival. People have to put on a front to survive. If you’re not able to work from home and you don’t have anyone willing to support you, you may not have much option but to keep going out, plastering on a smile, and going through the motions.

Yeah I was being a bit sarcastic maybe, or not necessarily agreeing with it being the most important thing. Just an observation really, that the IN life isn't always all that, and you never know how happy or unhappy anybody is really. There's got to be room for people who don't, can't, or won't live a conventional life, hasn't there?

I wonder that too. As a parent, if an adult child moved back in with us permanently, I'd require them to look for work until they find some, do certain household chores and cook fresh food twice a week for the family. I'd also nudge them to take up at least one hobby and one charitable activity to get them out of the house, so that they had a life. Whether they want a relationship or to socialise a lot is up to them but lounging around gaming and eating takeaways would not last long without some intervention.

I so agree.
I've struggled with depression. I've struggled with anxiety. I'm also autistic. I've made several big moves across countries and started from scratch..
I do personally think that you can only get out of humanity what you put in. And that is the same for trust. I've met some people who've hurt ne in varying degrees of severity, physically and mentally.. but I actively choose to trust until it's proven to me by that individual thar I should not trust them. I do this for my own sake. I choose to see the best in people until forced by them to do otherwise. I choose to try and build connections despite it often being hard or terrifying.. despite someontimes getting it wrong and being humiliated. I keep trying.
And as a mental health worker myself this is really something I advise. I'm not saying it's always possible.. but being happy and content is more work than many people realise. It involves choices and effort. Sitting there expecting a switch to magically flip and you'll suddenly love life.. it rarely works unless the problem is a very clear one that could be clearly resolved..
It's important to try basically. That's my personal view.
Obviously if you aren't unhappy despite your nihilistic outlook, then it doesn't matter. If you are genuinely happy completely alone that's fine and valid.
But I meet a lot of unhappy people who are basically just scared of being hurt.. scared of taking chances and reaching out and trusting.. or scared of making any effort to be happy.. they say things like 'everyone lets you down in the end' and 'people are awful' as though they are protecting themselves somehow. But they aren't protecting themselves they are making themselves utterly miserable. Choosing to see the worst in everyone and everything is an unhealthy coping mechanism.. trying to protect yourself from the hope and humiliation. The lift and fall of life. But it's just a slower continual fall and no lift.
Life has peaks and troughs.. there are wonderful people and shit people and everything in between out there.
I really believe in reframing all situations to see the positive rather than negative.
But I do meet a lot of people who push others away from them on purpose and then act as though that proves they can rely on anyone.

I think you can if they live with you and off you. If they are not behaving like an adult, contributing to the household through paying bills and/or doing a good share of housework, cooking, errands and home maintenance, then they are behaving like an oversized child and parents need to intervene.

I think it is our job as parents to help our children launch into the world, to become independent and capable, to contribute and participate in ways that will help them feel fulfilled and purposeful and happy and engaged with life. To take healthy risks and be resilient to disappointment. If for whatever reason we failed to do that when they were children and teens, but they still live under our roof, then there's still time to catch up with that part of parenting.

I'm ignoring all the "they should pull themselves together" type posts, as a parent to one of these apparently "unacceptable" people, and reflecting on those comments about people who strive to appear to be the "life and soul" in order to avoid judgement. I dont know if its just obvious but its really given me food for thought - not something we can thrash out here but thoughts about popular people, what others like to see and have demonstrated and performed for them. "I am happy and popular therefore I am happy and popular" vs the vitriol here aimed at those who don't fit that slot at all, in any way.

Anyway, I've started on the Prosecco early so I'll get me coat ...!!

@Thatcastlethere you are right, of course, an excellent post. The vast majority of people DO want connection, and friendship, and community. And you're right that that is hard, its too easy to fold in on yourself. I suppose its the magic word, resilience. Where does that come from? Is it innate in people, or just...not?