People who drop out of life

[Dappy777]

Over the last week or so I've had two separate conversations about people who've 'dropped out' of life – no job, no friends, no interest in anything.

Last night, for example, I went for a meal with a family friend who was telling us about his youngest brother. He is 30, lives with their mum, and has no life at all. He has no job, no relationship, no hobbies and very few friends. He spends all day in the flat eating takeaways and drinking, then sleeps most of the afternoon, wakes up around 8pm and sits up all night playing video games. He's never been abroad, and never even been to London (he lives in north Essex).

I had a similar chat on Christmas Day. A neighbour told me about his brother and how he's "given up on life" (as my neighbour put it). Doesn't work, date, socialize, pursue hobbies, nothing.

It isn't so much the not dating or not working that puzzles me. Plenty of people don't want a serious relationship, or kids, or even a job. I can even understand not socialising (I'm a bit of an introvert myself). What I find so puzzling is the lack of interest in life/being alive – you know, just going for a walk on a spring morning, or swimming in the sea, or looking at the stars. Is it depression do you think? I know of quite a few people like this – young people who play video games, smoke weed, and seem to have opted out of the world. I don't know if it's my imagination, but it seems to be more common. Is it just me?

What incentive is there for people who have "opted out" of life to get back on the treadmill?
Life is mainly drudgery for little or no reward. Can you blame people for not wanting to partake?

Cor dear, then the relatives get all upset when they neck themselves. Don't know what the world's coming to!

In many cases where someone has truly dropped out of life, there wouldn't be anyone to be upset.

Yep. I made it to an earlyish retirement, but it was just utter burn out.

You are not worthless and the world will not be better without you

True, but I've lived that life for a brief time and it was lonely and I had no pride, and was depressed. Wanting to change all that pulled me out of it even though it meant working again etc.

Sounds like severe depression to me rather than "opting out of life" Most people wouldn't knowingly choose this sort of life without shit mental health

I think this thread highlights a need for Universal Basic Income, so that people who can't work or interact well can live the way they need to, and everyone else can earn extra if they like.
The income will be spent, on food or hobbies, so fed back into the system anyway.
With A.I. growing we will hopefully head towards working less anyway.

Do you not understand that people feel much, much worse than you?

@mootlepip

It is like dancing on the edge of a knife, tbh. Too much and she'll burn out; too little and she'll opt out.

I remain positive because I can be flexible and pivot. I have no 'outcomes' in my head for her except an independent life. I would prefer her not to go to Uni as I worry about the pressure of academic life. She is very skilled with her hands - I think she would do well in a trade.

She is a perfectionist so I spend more time reining her back and getting to get her to see 'good enough' is good enough. My mantra is to leave perfection for the robots.

As I said, I watched my brother fail life from the beginning and I am determined DD1 will not follow him. Tbh, she is now recognising how her Uncle is living and she doesn't want it for herself.

The next 6-10 years are THE most crucial point of her life.

You are assuming they are capable of more, you can't know this

Living this way is not satisfying or joyful.

Thats very sad to read - but is it more satisfying or rather tolerable than being fully immersed in a difficult external world - is there some level of comfort and protection?

Does anyone know anyone who has 'come out the otherside'?

Not necessarily working fulltime with huge social life - but has taking and incremental step to connect IRL with people or nature brought a little more satisfaction or joy even momentarily?

Drop out then if it’s so good. But you wont, because you know it isn’t.

I work with young people not in education and training and just wanted to say that you are doing an absolutely fantastic job.
You show such an understanding of your daughter's strengths and weaknesses and of how to build skills step by step for the future.
I'm in awe ❤️ and your daughter is lucky to have you as her parent.

I agree with this ... I think that self esteem and building confidence is by taking action and not overthinking. So actually 'doing stuff' from as basic as self care - being proud you washed your teeth today and maybe another day this will extend to a shower etc.

Little wins and nudges through tiny, very conscious incremental steps can maybe build a buffer to tackle anxiety. I think we need to move more, be busy and responsible. I also think that we need safe human connection to satisfy our nervous system, physiology and psyche. This isnt the same as texts or online communication. But it needs to be safe and warm relationships and maybe these are hard to find or trust in an increasingly hostile and fractious world but without them I think we go inot further MH decline and live a life that isnt satisfying or joyous. There is some risk to assess and prepare for.

A wonderful colleague of mine committed suicide on Christmas Eve.

She was a lovely person, a hugely supportive workmate, had a partner, children, grandchildren, great job that she was fantastic at and appeared to love (and with an incredibly supportive manager), own house, no money worries that we know of but there was clearly something making her desperately unhappy.

Our whole team is stunned and devastated. We work entirely with clients with MH issues and yet none of us spotted that she was struggling or unhappy in any way. We have basic MH training including safeguarding, risk assessment and suicide prevention, but none of us had any notion that all was not well with her.

I can't begin to imagine how bad the impact of someone's suicide must be on those really close to them. I'm finding it harder than I could have imagined.

Yep. My abusers were incredibly charismatic in public. There have been times where incredibly friendly people trigger me to wonder what they’re really like at home.

The phrase “fool me once shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me” comes to mind. If you’ve been “fooled” by seemingly friendly people multiple times, your brain finally kicks in to keep you safe.

@MammaTo Yes, the thread has veered well away from the OP’s original statement. She’s not talking about ppl who are ND and need support. She’s talking about NT teenagers/young adults who are probably suffering from untreated anxiety or depression, and have become stuck in a rut.

Many NT ppl suffer from mental illness at some point(s) in their lives, it’s not uncommon at all and treatments can be effective.

I am really sorry that you have lost your lovely colleague in such a devastating way. Suicide grief is unique and challenging in its own way and I hope you and your team find the comfort and support that you will need over the coming months.

lost for words.

She’s talking about NT teenagers/young adults who are probably suffering from untreated anxiety or depression, and have become stuck in a rut.

They could also be suffering from untreated ND which often develops to, and presents as anxiety, depression and/or addictions, and have become stuck in this rut.

Maybe there is unresolved childhood trauma - eg undisclosed sexual abuse, bullying or childhood neglect or abuse - or ongoing online grooming?

Maybe the parents are struggling with their own undiagnosed and treated ND / MH / addicitions / unresolved trauma?

I think you’ve misunderstood. No one is making fun of your user name.

@Tikityboo Absolutely and if they are NT, untreated mental illness doesn’t just go away, they need help. As you say, mental illness often runs in families- I’m diagnosed with GAD, have had counseling and take medication. Both of my children have had counseling for anxiety, which rears its head from time to time. We’re currently looking for a counselor near DD’s university as she had a rough term and needs support going forward. We’re all NT, but anxiety is part of our lives. It’s not necessarily related to past trauma (certainly not for my DC anyway), it’s just part of who you are.

Sorry for your loss x

Of course I do. But I'd wager I have a better understanding of my brother than you do.