Why don’t you prioritise yourself?

[Ratisshortforratthew]

Inspired by the multitude of threads from women who’ve done all the cooking/gift buying and wrapping/arranging visits etc at Christmas while their useless lump of a husband does nothing but also in general the many women on here who have a useless lump of a husband who does nothing in everyday life.

I often see the same reasons given: that women are socialised to put themselves last; they care more about family/cleanliness/keeping up appearances than men; they feel that being selfish is bad, and many more along those lines.

I’m a woman but I can’t relate to this at all. I grew up in a house where my dad never lifted a finger and my mum enabled him and waited on him hand and foot and from a very young age I remember thinking to myself “sod that for a game of soldiers”. I’ve actually taken much more after my dad - I’m lazy, I wouldn’t do many things that a lot of people here think are non negotiable like clean the house for visitors or do anything for Christmas. Basically my number one priority in life is me and my own happiness and comfort. I don’t like Christmas so I simply don’t partake in it and I don’t feel an ounce of guilt. In fact I never really do anything I don’t want to, I just say no. I’ve buggered off to the other side of the world alone for 5 weeks and left my partner at home (no kids). On our first date I told him that myself and my independence would always come before our relationship and if he didn’t like the sound of that he wasn’t the person for me.

It’s never occurred to me to want to “look after” a partner or feel any obligation to my parents, in fact I think they’re both a bit crap so I don’t bother much beyond phoning them. I feel no obligation to look after them in old age. Couldn’t give a monkeys what people think of me or the way I live my life.

So where are the other women like me? Why do so many women find prioritising themselves a taboo notion or something they’d like to do but can’t bring themselves to? Kids, sure, I understand they have to be prioritised and the fact I don’t have them is a huge factor but that doesn’t mean you have to be running about appeasing partners and extended family too.

I’m intrigued as to how I missed this apparently common part of female socialisation.

Having guests and catering for them takes time and effort. Same for keeping a house clean and tidy.

I'm the better cook, so this falls naturally to me - nothing wrong with that. DH has taken on a few chores around the house because I have stopped doing them (long story). But he had to learn the hard way.
However, cleaning is a grey area as my idea of clean & tidy is very different to DH idea of clean and tidy.

There is onlyaever a problem if someone feels pressured into it, but then, people should speak up for themselves and ask for help, accept that it might be done to different standards or just leave it.

I know my worth and my dh is not a useless lump, he does lots. I grew up with very lazy nd chaotic parents and I do think being selfish is bad. I care deeply about the people I love and our relationships work both ways, sometimes we take time for ourselves l, at times we suport one another. Growing up I felt envious of other children whose parents put them first. Now there are times when I work hard to make my dh and kids happy and other times where I do less and they carry the load for me. If you want to be selfish then go for it but surely the people around you won't be there to support you if you need it? Your comments remind me of Hugh Grant in the film About a Boy - No man is an island as he says

In terms of cleaning the house if people come over or just in general, I probably do more than my dh but this again is linked to my childhood. Our house was a bit chaotic when I grew up and I hated it, I like everything to have a place and for the house to be clean and tidy because I can't function if it isn't. I hate going into messy, chaotic or dirty houses and it doesn't make me think "oh' she's so lucky, she gets to please herself". It just reminds me of my chaotic parents and all those feelings of life being a bit out of kilter and unsettling. I don't think you should assume that all women who work hard in the home are downtrodden, relationships work both ways.

I suspect you are much more influenced than you think.

Maybe it’s not around some standards that you find annoying but it would disingenuous to say it’s never the case.

I have to say I’m surprised you can’t guess/understand why not all women react like you tbh.
Yes socialisation plays a role.
So does wanting to do something nice to others, or a sense of responsibility towards your dcs (eg not cleaning the house because you’re not going to be the only one to do it might work if it’s just you and your DP, but with dcs around, it’s a different matter), the boiling frog effect (it creeps up in you during ML!) and simply not wanting to hurt others by always putting yourself first.

On a personal note, unlike you (you said you have very little empathy), I’m the opposite agd have a lot of empathy. That means that if my dh gets hurt, even unintentionally, I feel it deeply. And I don’t like it!
Would I like to be less empathetic? Certainly not. That empathy is also what makes me a better parent and a better partner.
And you don’t need to be less empathetic and more practical to be able to set boundaries.

You sound emotionally healthy. Boundaries are robust. Not mean or unkind, just putting yourself first.

@Goldenbear I think just as there's pressure for women there is for men too. Personally, my DH falls under the category of providing and protecting, but then this is just my experience.

@Ratisshortforratthew you state you have low empathy. The origins and nurturing of this could be multiple but in stating this fact would suggest that you find it difficult to step into another persons shoes and understand from their perspective. You say you have good friends and a partner but I would be curious how this trait impacts them. On one side low empathy probably would lead to the opportunity for personal growth because you know what you want, but in doing so you could inadvertently step on those that you care for. Looking at this post and this admission, I'm not surprised that you find it difficult to understand why women take on the role they do in society and the struggles and pitfalls that brings. I'm curious though why post about it? Does the fact you don't understand it, bother you? You mention years of therapy, I wonder how much your temperament now is your defence mechanism - I don't care about you so I'm safe. No need to answer all this btw, just offering a ponder.

I can assure you I got all of those messages, from my family as well as from society in general. My mother believes that a woman who even considers that her needs might be equal in importance to other people’s would be pretty much the devil, and she brought up me and my sisters to believe that our job was to be compliant and submissive. But in adulthood you are responsible for dealing with that conditioning. It’s a choice. You can de-condition yourself, with effort.

@HunmingBowl the problem with this argument is it assumes that conditions change in adulthood and that the woman is more 'able' by virtue of age. There are so many variations of relationships and everyone knows the stats of VAWG, which directly keeps women in a subjugated state, even long after the abuse has stopped. We know that trauma literally rewires the body, from your nervous system, your gut to your brain, it adapts, and in doing so will cause that person to be at greater risk of making unhealthy choices. Combine this with addiction, ill-health, poverty, access to support, etc... choices, become much harder to make.

@HunmingBowl this is one of the many reasons why women's only spaces and refuges are so vital - it's a place for women to go to rebuild there bodies and minds so they have more chance to make better choices for themselves, but even then, female victims and survivors will carry the weight of the abuse and violence for there entire lives. The body keeps the score is an excellent book which goes in detail about the impact of abuse on the body.

You sound uncaring and selfish

I am selfish, yes - and very happy that way. I don’t see selfishness as a bad thing.

I really couldn’t disagree more. I don’t think women are “natural” nurturers and men “natural” providers. They’re entirely man-made gender constructs and I really resent being stereotyped as a nurturing empathetic type because it couldn’t be further from the truth. It isn’t even a universal truth in the instinct-driven animal kingdom - plenty of examples exist where this isn’t the case. I agree that capitalism is a bad and harmful model but the answer is not traditional gender roles imo, it’s socialism/social democracy - a framework that basically forces economic fairness so people can live the lives they wish within it.

I get that. I’m in somatic therapy for ongoing physical/psychological trauma from my childhood, including CSA. But we’re ultimately responsible for how we deal with whatever happens to us.

@Ratisshortforratthew, I quite agree. A higher quotient of female selfishness would make the world a better place.

Yes, I’m the polar opposite on the empathy scale. I don’t actually feel any emotion unless something is happening directly to me. That doesn’t mean I can’t understand why someone else is upset, of course I can rationally see that many situations and events are devastating but I don’t feel it if I’m not directly affected. Seeing a friend or my partner cry for example would actually just make me feel awkward and uncomfortable rather than upset.

Conversely though I think this actually makes me great in a crisis because I can sit and listen to people pour out their traumas for hours without feeling remotely drained or emotionally impacted myself. I can give practical advice if it’s wanted or just sit and listen. I’m the one who’d be thinking of what to do and who to call if someone’s house burnt down or they got stranded after an accident on holiday for example, while other people might panic. I’m actually very happy to help out the people I care about in a crisis because it isn’t emotionally taxing for me.

where I’m not good is if I think people are just lacking resilience or upset over something they should “get over”, like, I don’t know, not getting a job they really wanted or other relatively trivial things that happen to everyone.

I know someone who claims to be so empathetic that they can’t help bursting into tears if someone tells them something upsetting is happening to them and I find it the most self-centred and irritating reaction ever because it’s making someone else’s pain and trauma her own. I hate it.

Weirdly though I will cry and feel pain at anything to do with animals being mistreated. Humans, not so much 😂

I'm a bit like you op - except I have kids. I do have asd - I think this is part of why I just don't feel the need to facilitate others lives. That said, I do run around after my kids but I don't mind at all because they're kids.

I think it’s just us re creating what we witnessed growing up. Obviously not always but we saw mum work and do everything, while dad sat and watched tv. The daughter was expected to set the table, sit and chat with elderly relatives. My younger brother was allowed to say no to kisses from the oldies, but I had to be polite and put my feelings aside.
It seems things are slowly changing for the better, women are realising they don’t have to live the life they were told they had to have. And rather then be terrified of not having a family and rushing to marry someone because they think they will miss out, amazing woman like you are pointing out what it’s like. And that the happiest people are unmarried, childless women. I grew up with once a woman hits 40 they are more likely to be killed by a terrorist than marry. And it turns out to be bull shit, not to mention a lot of women would rather be killed by a terrorist than marry.

You’re welcome to ponder of course.

I can only say that the point I’m at in my life now is obviously a culmination of all the experiences I’ve had so far and it feels to me like I know myself better than ever and I’m as comfortable as I’ve ever been. The therapy really helped me shed a lot of unhealthy beliefs and behaviours as in the past I’ve definitely been defensive and untrusting - I don’t feel that’s true of me any more.

I feel like my relationships are reciprocal, as I said I have socialist values so fairness and justice are important to me and I give as much as I get from friendships. This doesn’t feel like a self-sacrifice because I want to. I maybe should’ve stated more clearly in my OP that my approach to life doesn’t preclude forming relationships with people, I thought it was obvious that I was talking about eschewing the expectations on women, not opting out of society completely. But some people have taken it that way so I should’ve been clearer.

As for why I posted - curiosity more than anything. I guess it’s just always felt as instinctive as breathing to me to question the status quo and wonder whether the things society says I should do will be of any benefit to me. It’s always felt more instinctive to push back than conform and easy to say no. I just wonder why others find it so hard or it doesn’t occur to them to question it. I don’t think there’s one simple answer.

Interestingly I find “providing and protecting” type men a real turn off. Any man who has traditionally masculine traits is the opposite of what I want in a partner! (I don’t believe in the concept of masculine and feminine traits as these are human inventions). Maybe because I’m not traditionally feminine and wouldn’t want to be perceived as such? I like effeminate men who not only look feminine (maybe that’s more to do with me being bisexual, idk) but talk about their emotions and engage with feminism. I like the power of being the higher earner in my relationship.

I've always taken a very pragmatic approach. I enter into relationships assuming I am an equal partner, equal in terms of financial contribution, domestic effort, planning & logistics. Why would it not be so?

I've always done my half. Relationships have ended when the man involved has expected me to do more than half, to pay more than half, to arrange more than half.

Over and over, a boyfriend spends 6 months or a year building a relationship and then tries the 'can't you walk the dog/cook tonight/buy loo roll, I'm too busy at work' when I have a full time job too. I have always refused.

I refuse to be taken for a fool. I am no more able to buy loo roll, make baked beans on toast or wash up, while working full time, than a man. They are just lazy, selfish and entitled.

So I prefer to remain single rather than carry a useless lump of a husband. Life is calm, happy, well organised, financially secure. 😊

Because I was brought up to negate my own emotions, needs, wants and desires in order to put everyone else’s first, lest I risk their wrath and rejection.

Add to that the psychological drama of being the accidental last child, and the million and one micro-aggressions (and macro-aggressions) that I encountered from my mother and the rest of my family as a result of this, and you have the perfect recipe for resentful martyrdom, which tends to peak at Christmas.

This is crappy for you and I’m sorry. Have you ever felt like you wanted to make a change though? It is within your power to get out of that mindset.

Not necessarily the case for OP, but I’m also astounded by those who have an attitude of ‘self prioritisation’ but then have the habit of going no contact with those who don’t do exactly what they want (e,g, can’t recognise other people also have priorities). Not sure if this is a lack of empathy, immaturity, control or a form of avoidance of anything a bit difficult but it’s not in my view a particularly healthy way of handling life. Obviously if one half of a relationship doesn’t pull their weight etc then that’s quite right to have issue with, but standing up for yourself doesn’t have to mean only ever thinking about yourself. Sharing the load often involves both people being willing to communicate, compromise, work as a team at times.

I agree. I think going NC with genuinely toxic people is a very valid thing to do but if it’s just because people don’t acquiesce to your demands then it’s petulant. I respect people who draw their own boundaries as much as I draw mine. So if I asked someone for, say, help packing to move house and they said no, I’d be fine with it. Similarly if I invited someone to an activity they weren’t into and they said “thanks but that’s not my thing” absolutely fine! I much prefer people to be honest than lie with a lame excuse or do something under duress. My friends and I are very comfortable saying to each other “those plans we had? I actually can’t be bothered, I want to stay in and watch eastenders in bed” or suchlike (obviously not every time we have plans).

It’s taken a lot of therapy and I have made changes, but to an extent it’s baked and hard-wired in.

Conversely though I think this actually makes me great in a crisis because I can sit and listen to people pour out their traumas for hours without feeling remotely drained or emotionally impacted myself. I can give practical advice if it’s wanted or just sit and listen. I’m the one who’d be thinking of what to do and who to call if someone’s house burnt down or they got stranded after an accident on holiday for example, while other people might panic

And I think both from personal experience and from people around me that being empathetic doesn’t equal being useless in case of an emergency. If anything in my own family, it’s me the ‘empath’ that can deal with issues in a practical way. Like when I found my dad lying on the floor, covered in blood this Christmas.
Or for any practical issues for that matter.

You have a really negative view of people who are able to empathise. Even though it doesn’t reflect reality at all. Like if you wanted to convince yourself that it’s good ‘to have no feelings’ tbh.

Also like another poster, I’d be curious to see what your DP and friends would say.
Ive lived with someone who would do exactly what you describe. Putting themselves first all the time. It’s awful. And I wouldnt wish that life to anyone because it also means you can’t rely on that person ever. You need support? They say Yes and then No at the last minute because they can’t be bothered (like with your example with your friends). If what you want or need doesnt align with theirs? You can get lost. Whatever you want or need will not happen. And of course, you never get seen or heard.

So my conclusion is that either you’re not actually always putting yourself first and being selfish. You’re just selfish in comparaison to a system where women are told to ALWAYS put themselves second. (The way you’ve been brought up?)
Or you’ve never actually experienced real closeness with friends and partner. You have acquaintances and someone you live with, each living their life in parallel to each other but not together. And at some point, it will hit you hard.

I can only hope that you refer to the first.
But then a lot of women do that wo calling themselves selfish! No need to imo