Why don’t you prioritise yourself?

[Ratisshortforratthew]

Inspired by the multitude of threads from women who’ve done all the cooking/gift buying and wrapping/arranging visits etc at Christmas while their useless lump of a husband does nothing but also in general the many women on here who have a useless lump of a husband who does nothing in everyday life.

I often see the same reasons given: that women are socialised to put themselves last; they care more about family/cleanliness/keeping up appearances than men; they feel that being selfish is bad, and many more along those lines.

I’m a woman but I can’t relate to this at all. I grew up in a house where my dad never lifted a finger and my mum enabled him and waited on him hand and foot and from a very young age I remember thinking to myself “sod that for a game of soldiers”. I’ve actually taken much more after my dad - I’m lazy, I wouldn’t do many things that a lot of people here think are non negotiable like clean the house for visitors or do anything for Christmas. Basically my number one priority in life is me and my own happiness and comfort. I don’t like Christmas so I simply don’t partake in it and I don’t feel an ounce of guilt. In fact I never really do anything I don’t want to, I just say no. I’ve buggered off to the other side of the world alone for 5 weeks and left my partner at home (no kids). On our first date I told him that myself and my independence would always come before our relationship and if he didn’t like the sound of that he wasn’t the person for me.

It’s never occurred to me to want to “look after” a partner or feel any obligation to my parents, in fact I think they’re both a bit crap so I don’t bother much beyond phoning them. I feel no obligation to look after them in old age. Couldn’t give a monkeys what people think of me or the way I live my life.

So where are the other women like me? Why do so many women find prioritising themselves a taboo notion or something they’d like to do but can’t bring themselves to? Kids, sure, I understand they have to be prioritised and the fact I don’t have them is a huge factor but that doesn’t mean you have to be running about appeasing partners and extended family too.

I’m intrigued as to how I missed this apparently common part of female socialisation.

I'm getting better. I bought myself presents this year. Even put them away with the other gifts and then last night have scattered them around the house in their new homes. Has been a lovely treat today to enjoy spots of colour and new bits around the house and has helped with the inevitable disappointment of unthought out gifts from DH. Better than previous years where there have been no gifts at all though. Have of course also done all the shopping, 99% of the wrapping, card writing, general planning etc but that's part of caring for others in my book. Am often reminded by posts on here that having people to care for is a privilege many don't have.

Hope everyone has had a nice day xx

So what happened to putting me first? You said you don’t ever put others first and yet you are also saying you would respond to an emergency. One of those things must be untrue.
my relationships are not hard work, they are a total pleasure - hence my question.

I like pleasing myself some of the time and I like to look after the people I love at other times. I'd feel short changed in life if I couldn't do both.

Why come onto a parenting site to tell us off for not putting ourselves first? Maybe most of us could do with doing more for ourselves but it's natural to prioritise your children. That doesn't mean that you are a martyr and put yourself last in every situation, but above all, your caring duties towards children go above everything else. No offence but you won't get it if you don't have children.

Who is talking about 'putting yourself first at all times'? I literally know no one who does that. We're talking about not martyring oneself to an unhealthy degree.

No offence but you won't get it if you don't have children.

Erm, speaking as a person without children, of course children are meant to come first at all times. Useless husbands and other adults not so much.

There is an inability to separate unhealthy martyring, which is what I think OP was talking about, from having healthy loving relationships on this thread.

Well, I have a child, and I think the OP makes an important point. DS’s needs come before my wants, sure, but it’s pretty rare that they clash after the baby stage. Also, he has two involved, resident parents — if there’s something he needs from a parent, that doesn’t always have to come from me. I’m off to Spain for a few solo days next week because I feel like it, and there’s no reason not to.

I also think it’s interesting how triggering some posters seem to find the OP’s POV. I do think it’s healthy to prioritise yourself.

Ok so I’ve thought of another example. There are frequently threads on here about one partner having a friend of the opposite sex that the other partner is uncomfortable with. Most of the replies say things like “you shouldn’t do something that makes your partner uncomfortable” “the friendship is encroaching on family time” “emotional affair” etc.

I really, vehemently disagree with the general feeling on these situations - it’s a huge red line for me for a partner to express any kind of desire to dictate or police my friendships. I know they’re platonic and it’s up to my partner to trust me or not. If they decide they don’t trust me, they know where the door is. I would always, always choose my autonomy to have my friendships over a relationship. It’s not about choosing the friendships and specific people over my partner, just that I’d never tolerate anyone telling me how to conduct my life. If they’re uncomfortable, it’s a them problem. (This has never come up in my relationship because we both have friends of both sexes and spend time alone with them and it’s never been an issue because we’re not paranoid).

I think this is spot on.

@Ratisshortforratthew I also prioritise myself and must’ve missed that part of the female socialisation thing too lol

I was talking to a guy once, and he was hinting I come over and cook for him and his teenage son 😂 we hadn’t even been on a date and he thought that would entice me. He just reminded me why I usually don’t date men with kids lol although you do get sexist comments like that from child free men. These same men would likely have worked themselves up in a fury if I’d asked them to take me out for a meal.

Most of my friends have kids and are married and the vast majority are not martyrs either. But I did have a couple of them back in my
20s, and they baffled me. They seemed to expect their female relatives and even female friends to support them more than their own partners who have fathered their children. They made zero demands on the men they called their life partners while complaining to me about how rundown and tired they were.

I also think it’s interesting how triggering some posters seem to find the OP’s POV. I do think it’s healthy to prioritise yourself

Hear hear! You sound like the majority of my friends with kids - many travel solo or with friends and leave the kids at home at least once a year. And more regularly they enjoy brunches or nights out with friends without their kids or partner.

Most of them have more of a social life than me and i think it’s great lol

But then many on MN won’t get this - as they are more than happy to let friends fall by the way side while they’re “busy” with with their “little family” (and complain later on they have no friends).

You can have kids and know your self worth. I had my daughter young and feel like I’ve achieved alot. But I didn’t take s**t from my partner. Sadly it led to us breaking up - nearer the end of the relationship he would tell me that he wanted a woman that could cook for him etc and because he is a man he needs XYZ - I had to work, I had to have my independence stand so that relationship wasn’t for me. My current partner is more domestic than me - and I made sure that he knew that I wasn’t going to lose myself to have him in my life.

I think many people enable lazy partners - especially if we keeping up with the HJones.

Edited because I couldn’t get a link to work. Sorry

My nickname when I was younger was 'cinders'. My mum died when I was very young so I had to grow up quickly. I learnt from an early age that my value was in how I served others, although at times, even when I did 'serve others' this could confusingly lead to negative responses. I am now a very anxious adult and extremely hypervigilant. It has caused a massive strain on my mental and physical health and I had to leave a very promising career owing to my mental health. Because my worth was based on how I served others, any type of self care etc is internally perceived as being selfish.

@Ratisshortforratthew it's interesting reading your post and the impact that your childhood had on you. Overall though, I think we live in a world which largely endorses the woman, especially the mother role, as the caring and nurturing role. So with this comes the cleaning and preparing foods etc.

I’m sorry to hear this and I hope you do find a way to show yourself love because you deserve it, everyone does. Our childhoods really do shape us in huge ways

@Ratisshortforratthew Situations can change though and sometimes it feels right to do more for others than ourselves. My BIL (by marriage, married to DH’s sister) is similar to you, but when his Dad was diagnosed with terminal cancer, he was the adult child who for several months, reorganized his schedule so he could go over every evening to help physically care for him and give his Mum support, and stayed overnight when it became necessary (carers came during the day). He did far more than his siblings (not judging it’s fact). His parents didn’t expect it, he wanted to help them.

It really surprised me tbh, but I think he did it because his parents had always encouraged him to follow his dreams and he wanted to repay their love iyswim.

Oh 100%, especially on a global level the subjugation of women is very much alive and well. I recognise what a privilege it is to grow up in a country where I have the choice of whether to opt into that or not. I guess it’s just always felt very instinctive to me that that kind of life looks crap (in my opinion) and I’ve never felt that my worth depends on how well other people think I’m “womaning” in that sense. In fact I’ve always had an instinct to want to do the exact opposite of what society or people tell me I should. I’m just fascinated as to how the same starting point can create such different outcomes in women.

Yes, of course you’re right my feelings could change. He sounds like a good guy. Reminds of a previous post asking how I could say I’d help my friends in a crisis when I don’t do anything I don’t want to do - I guess that falls to me under something I do want to do because I value and love my friends. So I don’t see the two ideas as opposed.

@Ratisshortforratthew Exactly, they’re not opposed. It was just an interesting example as my BIL seems the polar opposite of a subjugated woman (ex-Army, successful professional) plus he has a sister who might have been conditioned to help out- but he was the one who did.

IP there's a middle ground here. You don't have to only just take care of number 1 or be a doormat.

I like taking care of others, always have. I work part time two days a week and my DH has a very stressful senior role and works insane hours. Because of this I take on the majority of running the house and kids. When he's home he's very hands on with the kids and pulls his weight but I prefer to do all the housework and cooking so when he's not working we can have family time.

We are in this situation because I was us to be. I decided to work part time so I could be at home with the children and we've naturally fallen into this routine which works for our family.

I am no doormat, we are very very happy and very much a team. My youngest just started school and I have lots more free time for me to go to the gym, meet friends, relax etc which my DH is totally happy for me to do. We've always had separate lives with hobbies and friends we meet each. I wouldn't switch places with my DH for a gold pig, he works far too hard but he loves it.

There is definitely a middle ground. I don’t do presents etc for DH’s side of the family etc. I do things for DH and DD but it’s pretty easy because it’s reciprocated so I don’t feel particularly put upon (except by Dd but she’s little so that’s different). I’d feel very fucking angry if Dh expected me to skivvy around after him though. We both chose presents for DC, he wraps while I drink a glass of wine and provide moral support. I really value the relationship I have with DH he’s the most selfless person I know but my relationship would very much be damaged if I always without exception put myself first (given he often puts me first). It’s nice caring for someone and being cared for.

I think there is still a sort of expectation that you as a woman will put other people first. I remember when we first went to stay with my MIL and my husband ironed my trousers for me and my MIL was horrified. She wouldn’t have felt the same if I had been the one doing the ironing. I think it’s that “when you are privileged equality feels like oppression kind of thing”. So it’s not just normal to come first for a lot of women, you are actively having to behave outside the norm to just treat yourself the way many men treat themselves.

It’s quite shit. I’m quite different from a lot of the women in DH’s family (we come from a traditional culture) and even I get twinges of “do I look lazy” when I’m definitely doing my share but I’m not doing his too. I think since having a DD it’s been even more important to me that I don’t give in to the underlying norms. Whereas I may have done a bit more before because I knew it was for one day and it just smoothed my path with his family before (a bit not a lot). Now I am definitely not having DD see loads of men sat on their arses being served by women and letting that shit slide.

I think if you don’t have kids the choices you have made are much much much easier to make. I think you underestimate that based on your post to be honest. I also wondered if you are lonely? You sound like you don’t trust much and maybe don’t value relationships with other people. I am a bit like you in that I can be selfish but I definitely also feel pressure to ‘conform’ in family life.

No I’m not lonely at all, I have a great partner and good friends - it took me a while in life to find ‘my people’ but I’ve got them now and it’s wonderful. I really wouldn’t change a thing about my life. like I said I’ve had dark patches and MH issues but therapy was really transformative for me.

It’s interesting you say you feel the pressure to conform, I guess that’s part of what interests me is why some people feel this and others don’t, or purposely choose not to conform. I obviously can’t imagine what a live with kids is like but I do appreciate the kids need to be factored into all choices, I still maintain that that doesn’t have to extend to martyrdom and facilitating awful men and several posters with kids have agreed.

Because the way you dealt with trauma was to be fiercely independent and view obligations as claustrophobic attempts to ‘tie you down’. Therefore you resist anything that feels like a capitulation. Other people aren’t like you. You lack empathy not to realise why some women behave the way they do, because you don’t act that way so can’t fathom how anyone else would. Develop empathy and then you’ll get it. No, not accept it, because it isn’t acceptable. But understand it.

Yes, I’m aware I’m not a very empathetic person but I think it’s more of an asset than a problem. I can be objective and practical and stand up for myself and I’d rather that than the alternative.