Apple Martin’s debut into society

[Iwanttoliveiniriscottage]

What do people think about this. I can’t believe it’s still a thing in our modern society. Being presented to society in a debutante ball. How very antiquated.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-14148249/Apple-Martin-Debutante-Ball-Chris-Gwyneth-Paltrow-Paris.html

He is the son of an academy award winning movie director; that's probably the connection to the film industry and to her mother's friends.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florian_Henckel_von_Donnersmarck

However, at the same time the filmmaker is from a noble family, but as @saschka said, Germany does not use aristocratic titles anymore and aristocracy has no right to rule anything. But they keep their titles, only the order in which they are used is different in Germany. The title is now part of the family name, so in a German newspaper (except yellow press) the correct order would be Leo, Count Henckel von Donnersmarck.
But in Germany, he has no right to be addressed with his title as "Count Leo" or "Count von Donnersmarck"

Apple does not seem as sophisticated as her mother or grandmother. Both from upper class backgrounds as per US social class system. Not quite royals or aristocracy obviously but not new rich either. I am not sure Chris Martin is bothered people see-this side of him. I like that he is supporting her daughter if that if what she wants to do.

There is also daughter of an Indian flop actor, no connection to any aristocracy. At least Chris Martin is the lead singer of hugely successful global band and Paltrow is a well known actress-

Apple has got filler in her upper lip at such young age, not sure why.

The original Bal was held in 1958 and all the debutantes were American.

Now that there are more countries where the rich don't feel the need to hide the fact that they're rich, the attendance has become more global.

There was a hiatus in the bal between the 60s and the early 90s, decades when egalitarianism was the zeitgeist. In the wake of the "greed is good" 80s, the rich emerged and plunged into conspicuous and publicised rich-people activities. 2004 saw the debut of Mikhail Gorbachev's granddaughter.

The UK has seen plenty of attendees, including Amelia Windsor, Kitty Spencer, and Tatiana Mountbatten. There have been several Austrian Hapsburg women in attendance, and many members of other European royal houses and aristocratic families.

Bottom line - there are far fewer Americans attending annually than there were (a small fraction these days compared to the original Bal). And the reason for the Bal's continuing status is that there is no such thing as bad publicity.

Americans have their own shindigs.

Brooklyn has been rightly pilloried in the press for his photography/chef careers and for the life of me I cannot understand how his parents allowed him to put himself in that position when they have all the money available for him to go to any of the best catering schools or photography courses in the world. It almost feels like a cruelty.

He did actually go to a very prestigious arts college in New York to study photography. He lasted one term before dropping out. It became clear quite quickly that he lacked the basic skills and had no idea what he was doing. Mummy and daddy's money opened the door but his lack of talent closed it again sharpish.

As an aside, I hate those rigid moulded-cup bodices - they look so badly fitted, more like support underwear when they stand proud of ‘the bust’. Weird to see that on a couture dress that must have cost £20k.

Did you cut and paste from Wikipedia @mathanxiety 🙄? Your profile name and the missing 's' would suggest you're American. As does your rather quaint storytelling, citing Z list minor royals who might be found on the pages of Hello! Or Tatler diary at the opening of an envelope in Mayfair in search of a wealthy man. Because as we all know distant royalty now does not mean genuine wealth in the modern era.

Nevertheless I'd disagree with your opinion on Americans having their own shindigs, as evidenced by the Martins et al. And the fact you're here on a British chat site telling us so.

Yes she did because the girl she bullied tried to commit suicide

I'm not sure if this is just a rumour though.

I had a quick look on reddit and there are people there saying that this was a made up rumour by people who don't like Apple Martin.

Who knows what the truth is.

I’ve seen speculation in this thread that it’s some sort of surgical lip flip. Possibly that and filler.

Whatever it is, it isn’t her natural lips. Photos of her as a younger teen don’t look like that.

Mathanxiety is a longstanding MNer and IIRC she is originally from the US so quite understandably will talk and write as someone from the US does. MN has people from all over the world on it.

From the chatter I’ve seen online, it IS true that she left Harvard-Westlake, even though it was kept very quiet. No one can say why she left without getting into legal hot water.

Yes but there are people writing on reddit. They say that they went to Harvard Westlake with Apple, and that Gwyneth and Chris decided to transfer Apple to a different school for her later years, as her parents simply wanted her to move school.

Maybe she moved house and moved to a new school after her parents seperated?

It's not uncommon to change schools.

I went to four different schools for example , as my parents changed jobs snd relocated, and i moved school again later on, after my parents got divorced, and me and my mum moved to a different area.

There are also rumours about Brooklyn Beckham’s wife, that she pushed her nanny down the stairs. She is also from a very wealthy family-maybe people like to think they’re awful because they’re super rich? And she changed not just her lips but her entire face with surgery.

These rumors could be true.

Or they could be rumours started by jealous people, because obviously Apple Martin is rich, famous and pretty.

I wouldn't believe a rumour just because rlits been said somewhere on the internet.

We don't know the truth.

Thank you @SalsaLights for explaining the global nature of the internet and Mumsnet demographics. I've been here since 2007 so I'm good thanks.

What is still amusing me is @mathanxiety puzzling defensiveness against the obvious and very well known fact that American people of a certain milieu are fascinated and by European culture, class and society over here. GP is one of them.

There is a reason why US-UK migration has just accelerated and the Cotswolds is going to turn into a New England outpost, worse than it has already become with Daylesford and Soho House a parody of what British country life is like. Completely lost on the newest blow ins I'm sure.

As is the "bal". An archaic throw back to times when women had little to no agency or control over their lives, their marriages or their money. And these events were a way of selling your daughter to the right kind of family and wealth and making sure she didn't run off with the milkman.

There is no way on gods green earth Chris Martin would shove his daughter in a frock that didn't fit her properly and parade her in Paris. It's a bestowed honour to be invited and as with all these things a highly manipulated guest list of wealth/A list/ aristocracy to supposedly reflect the times we live in.

Except it doesn't really does it? Unless you consider Hello! a good read and reflection of how we live now.

I think all of Gwyneth Paltrows grandparents are European, so that's why she feels connected to Europe. We feel connected to our ancestors.

Three of my grandparents were born in the UK. One of my grandparents was born in a different European country. I feel a connection to that country. I went over to visit it several times.

So what? That's not my point.

Every US family including the current president claims to have heritage or a piece of the mayflower. This is not a new thing. I'm only half of my uk nationality but I wouldn't go anywhere as a debutante because it's a weird fucking thing to do.

You wrote that American people are fascinated by European culture.

And I wrote , of course they are, a lot of American people are very recently descended from Europeans.

They have a strong connection to Europe

She doesn't look younger, just better. Poor Gwyneth hasn't aged well. She was never a conventionally attractive woman and being extremely thin hasn't served her well. She looks very tired especially around the eyes and i do think her mum looks better. In the first profile pic of her and Apple, i actually thought it was Blythe.
Apple herself is a spoilt little rich girl who is extremely entitled.
Pushing the other girl out of the way was not only really unpleasant behaviour but also really embarrassing. With the bullying history, she sounds vile.

Is Gwyneth a Welsh name?

I do think Gwyneth was and is conventionally attractive.
I think most women (especially fair skinned sun lovers). Go through some dramatic ageing in our late 40s/early 50s. Then it settles down. I’ve seen the same with my Mum. She aged quite quickly through menopause then looks amazing now at 73 (zero work).

Ageing is not linear. Though I suspect Blythe may have had a good facelift which always helps. And Gwyneth at most has had a touch of Botox from time to time.

Love this post.

What's off putting is the rich entitledness and obvious lack of class and self awareness. That's why most people don't like Meghan Markle, it's the same affected Californian 'I'm a super star' attitude. I guess they can't help it, growing up in that culture but it's quite crass and superficial. It's a shame that the Internet and social media is bringing that way of life to Europe with an army of vacuous influencers.