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I can't cope with depressed brother being so reliant on me. Feel like a bitch for saying that.

789 replies

inigomontoyahwillcox · 02/12/2024 05:47

I'm so sorry - this going to be so long - but I need to get this out. I'm up with this awful cough/chest infection which makes it impossible to lie down and sleep. Been ill since last Tuesday. Have had virtually no sleep since then. Pretty sure a lot of you will think I'm a heartless cow, but I'm getting to my wits end.

Context. My brother (quite significantly older than me) has suffered from depression since he was a teen. He has been on antidepressants since then, except for a couple of occasions when he's taken himself off them for one reason or another, which have ended up in disaster. He lives about 2.5 hours away from me.

For some years now he has been spending more and more time at my house with my DH, DD and I. He lives alone and came to stay with us during lock down, and has often come to stay with us, sometimes for weeks, off and on since then when he's feeling low or had a crappy couple of weeks (e.g. work stress). I've always said to him of course he can come, how can I not, but he's often then stayed and stayed, prolonging his stay without discussing it with me - just declaring he's not going to go home for another week at the end of his planned stay.

He has a fantastic job in the civil service, but has had lot and lots of absences for various ailments over the past couple of years and they are understandably getting serious about his attendance. He seems to think this is very unfair and how they just don't understand. I've tried gently - but seriously - to explain that you can indeed be dismissed for repeated or lengthy absences.

In May this year he started getting some odd physical symptoms - balance issues/vertigo mainly (other very vague things like feeling cold, and out of it) - I rushed down there to him when this initially happened as he took himself to hospital thinking he was having a stroke. Ultimately anything serious was ruled out and after taking him to a few appointments for some further checks I drove him back to mine to stay. He decided that these symptoms were due to his antidepressant (that he'd been on for 15 years), so agreed with his GP to reduce his dose to an incredibly small one (questionable that it was even therapeutic anymore - it was 1/4 of the starting dose, he had been on double the starting dose for 15 years). His physical symptoms did clear up eventually - he put this down to this reduction in his antidepressants - I wasn't so convinced. I also voiced my concern that he was now effectively not on antidepressants and we all know how that had ended up in the past and that he needed to push to try another antidepressant if he didn't want to go back to his old one.

He eventually went back home and to work, and was there for a few months until he started experiencing stomach issues, now diagnosed as IBS (which I know is not fun - I've had it for years myself) and yet again took himself off work. He was working with his GP and a dietician and put on the FODMAP diet which he's still on. Again, he came to ours for a few weeks. His work were getting very ancy by this time and he started to do some hours remotely from ours as he had no choice. Eventually he went home again, he was home for a week only then for his depression to increase so I told him to get an emergency appointment with his GP who told him to double his dose last week. Well all hell broke loose (assuming side effects of increasing the dose). I've been ill for a couple of months now with all these bloody relentless viruses (also been very anemic for a lot longer and recently had a couple of infusions and currently undergoing tests to find out why - so you can imagine how rough I've been feeling), but last Tuesday I came down with proper flu (raging temp etc.) and have been in bed since and have been mainly off work (doing work when needed from bed). I never take time off work, honestly have to be at deaths door - have subsequently developed a chest infection and am on antibiotics. Got a call from my brother at 5:30am on Wednesday with him feeling awful saying I needed to drive down and collect him, after explaining I couldn't as I was ill asked to speak to DH and asked him to go. I said to DH that he couldn't, he had work plus he was helping me out with a work event in the evening which I obviously couldn't attend any more but he still needed to arrange some stuff and be there for a short while. I put my foot down and said he had to either drive, get the train or wait until we could drive to him and if he was in crisis to call his local crisis team immediately. He eventually said he would drive as he couldn't fit all the stuff he wanted to bring in a backpack so the train was out (so he'd get obviously decided at that point he was coming for a while).

Since he's been with us he has been waking me up every morning at silly-o'clock (e.g. 5-6), as he's been experiencing massive anxiety. I've been woken up three times now to him standing in our bedroom crying and saying he can't cope. I am getting about 2 hours of sleep per night due to this chest infection anyway, and have usually only just dropped off when he's waking me up. At this rate I'm never going to get better. DH had to stop him coming into our bedroom the other day when I had eventually managed to doze off. Anyway, called the local out of hours crisis team yesterday morning and sat with him whilst he spoke to them, they're seeing him this morning and have told him to register as a temporary patient at my local GP and they are hopefully going to make a plan going forward - e.g. moving to a new antidepressant (I hope). On the phone he said to them he was going to stay with me indefinitely (no discussion with me) and can't see himself doing his job for some months.

In the past when he's had a crisis like this he's decamped to our parents who look after him for months whilst he recovers and he finds a new job - but he's decided that he finds it too stressful to stay with them (they're getting on now as well). I can see what is going to happen. He is going to loose his job, loose his rented flat as a result and have nowhere to live but here with us. So, unemployed, living with us indefinitely. And what choice do I have?

It's really stressful when he stays with us - just the whole dynamic/routine of the household goes out the window. He has always been single and as a result his life revolves around himself, he spreads himself and his things around the house, and changes/moves/breaks thing (little things, but they all add up) and gets argumentative when I ask him not to do something. My home just doesn't feel like my home anymore; I can't spend evenings chilling out lying on the sofa in front of the telly with DH, as we often do, he's often lying on the sofa watching TV himself, he smokes although takes himself outside but his clothes smell of smoke. He is in our small spare room (well, he's on the sofa tonight for some reason) which we had just recently decked out as DD's study as her bedroom isn't really big enough for a desk; she's finishing her mocks tomorrow and has her GCSEs in May - she has ADHD and it's been incredibly challenging for her academically, but we'd really turned a corner recently and she's determined to get into 6th form, I'm so worried all of this is going to upheave her, stress her out and affect her performance; she's been so proud of her achievements recently and I think if she does badly now what little confidence she'd recently gained will disappear.

I am pretty sure a straw will break the camel's back and I will end up loosing it with him at some point, or just getting incredibly stressed and ill (stress usually manifests itself physically with me as I just try to ignore it and push on through - I've had my own mental health battles). But how can I effectively abandon my depressed brother? I love him dearly, and want him to be well, but he's come to rely on me so heavily that it's becoming too much. He's really not helped himself; taking so much time off work for spurious reasons and now he really needs the time off they are challenging him and his job is in jeopardy; him not taking my advice about not going cold turkey on the antidepressants without a plan to start a new one; just the assumption that we can constantly put our lives on hold. DH is being incredibly understanding - but I can even see him getting frustrated by my brother over the past few months. DH also had a huge mental breakdown last year and attempted suicide twice, he's only just got back on some sort of even keel about 6 months ago but is still recovering. Jesus, what if HE ends up breaking down again and then I've got 2 men in crisis to look after?! I've got my own full time stressful job to do as well, plus a neurodivergent daughter to keep on track. I'm terrified! I honestly don't know what to do for the best. He has very good friends but they don't live in the same city as him, but other than them and my parents, we're all he has.

What the fuck do I do?

OP posts:
pooperscoops · 07/12/2024 11:55

thewrongsister · 07/12/2024 11:46

This is a man she knows and loves and considers family
Someone she believes she can trust despite his illness
A man she's lived with on and off all her life
A man who she has seen her mother put first above everything time and time again
He has form for showing up at his parents home to stay when he's specifically been told not to come
He also has been allowed to decide for himself when to stay with OP
A grown man with manipulative tendencies

So let's be generous and say maybe there's only a small risk he'd kill her... it's not a risk I recommend anyone take.

The DD needs to know not to open the door even to speak to him if he shows up, no matter what state he's in, no matter what he says and to walk the other way if she sees him on the street, even if he's seen her and is calling and waving her over. Given DD history with him, how's OP realistically going to get her DD to do that without letting the child know she's in danger.

Edited

100% agree.

His words are haunting and unforgivable.

Copperas · 07/12/2024 11:57

OP, you said he had a fantastic job in the Civil Service but may be about to lose it. Would medical retirement be an option? Because you need him to be far away and solvent in the future. Many good wishes for a way out of this awful crisis.

Lallydallydune · 07/12/2024 12:08

inigomontoyahwillcox · 07/12/2024 00:35

I think when I say advocate I mean ensure that the professionals involved in his care fully understand his condition and behaviours rather than his version. I see that as advocating for him as it's in his best interest for them to know the full story so they can address the root cause (I.e. personality disorder or neurodiversity)) rather than throwing a sticking plaster at the issue in the form of a short term hospital stay and drugs.

OP i still think you are doing too much for him

And you need to look at your own learned behaviour (you've learned that women should look after men).

Even if your brother is sick, he is not your responsibility in any way.

My older brother has had multiple mental health issues .

I do not do a thing for him . I do nothing for him.

I learned in the past that if I do anything he doesn't appreciate it. And he also doenst care about my life.

I do nothing for him

Interested in this thread?

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Noshowlomo · 07/12/2024 12:23

Have a fun day OP, and hope the weather isn’t too bad where you are

Orangesandlemons77 · 07/12/2024 12:45

The thing is OP, the more you do for him, the less he has to do. This is enabling behaviour. he learns you will go it and this has built up over the years so he is more dependant. he has developed a kind of learned 'helplessness'

If you can step back, now it can actually be helpful, he will then have to start to advocate for himself / take more responsibility (and if he choses not to that is on him, not you)

If you can stand back and think of this overall dynamic that you are enmeshed in maybe this will help you.

I also think some counselling / therapy might be helpful for you moving forward and the Out of the FOG site for e.g. boundaries with with brother and parents (who are likely to try and get you 'back' to your original place) would probably be helpful.

I have not had anything like as severe a situation with your brother but even so am NC with my family of origin and it can be a blessed relief. If you have to go NC with the lot of them that could not be such a bad thing.

inigomontoyahwillcox · 07/12/2024 12:51

Thanks all, the DJ marathon (various DJs playing back to back until tonight) is indoors so all good. Ironically the charity we're doing it for is our local Young Carers support group 😁

DD knows what he said now - I left my phone with her when we were out last night for a few minutes so she could pay for something and she looked at a WhatsApp conversation between DH and I. She told me this morning and said she was sorry and it was wrong to look but she wanted to know what was happening. So she knows. I've explained that she is not in danger because I won't let her be in danger, she is and always will be my number one priority, she said she knows he said it because of his illness and I say yes, but that is not a reason to ignore the impact that it has on you and the people around him and that we need to leave the professionals to deal with him. I'm trying to move her away from believing she had any responsibility for his happiness or wellbeing as I always have for my brother and dad.

OP posts:
Lallydallydune · 07/12/2024 12:53

inigomontoyahwillcox · 07/12/2024 12:51

Thanks all, the DJ marathon (various DJs playing back to back until tonight) is indoors so all good. Ironically the charity we're doing it for is our local Young Carers support group 😁

DD knows what he said now - I left my phone with her when we were out last night for a few minutes so she could pay for something and she looked at a WhatsApp conversation between DH and I. She told me this morning and said she was sorry and it was wrong to look but she wanted to know what was happening. So she knows. I've explained that she is not in danger because I won't let her be in danger, she is and always will be my number one priority, she said she knows he said it because of his illness and I say yes, but that is not a reason to ignore the impact that it has on you and the people around him and that we need to leave the professionals to deal with him. I'm trying to move her away from believing she had any responsibility for his happiness or wellbeing as I always have for my brother and dad.

Can I ask why did you think that you had responsibility for your brothers wellbeing?

I'm just wondering where it came from.

I never look after my older brother . Ever.

Orangesandlemons77 · 07/12/2024 13:00

Lallydallydune · 07/12/2024 12:53

Can I ask why did you think that you had responsibility for your brothers wellbeing?

I'm just wondering where it came from.

I never look after my older brother . Ever.

Could be this

https://www.embarkbh.com/blog/parenting/parentification/

Pompeyssy · 07/12/2024 13:09

Now that your daughter knows, she needs to be told to NEVER answer the door to him ever.

Unfortunately too many women have died at the hands of men with MH issues that they would never have believed would have harmed them.

OP, you have been abusively conditioned to put your father and brother first, ahead of your husband and child.

That is just horrifying.
You may have finally begun to realise your familys peril but you need to seek support for yourself too.

You deserve some peace in your life.
Truthfully, as someone who is married a long time, I don't know how your marriage has survived your family.

Mine certainly wouldn't have and I wouldn't blame any partner from walking away from what your birth family have put you through.

Time for you to step so far away from this.
Wishing you well.

Lallydallydune · 07/12/2024 13:12

I think in some families, the women get beat down to think they have to look after the men.

In a nice way, Do some work on yourself OP. It'll help you.

And learn that you don't have to look after men. Even if he is mentally ill.

inigomontoyahwillcox · 07/12/2024 13:24

I don't know @Lallydallydune - think I need to unpack that. I just know that the atmosphere in the house when I was a child was entirely dependent on my dad's mood, he dictated not only the mood but everything we did and if we defied him he either got very angry (he would loose control and I was hit/belted a lot) or we were all treading on eggshells until he deemed it to be over. My mother did get angry with him and they did argue, but she always capitulated in the end.

There was a situation years ago when I recognised that my dad started to behave towards my DD in a similar way as he did me as a child and I grabbed her and ran (along with DH). I went no contact for years. She's never been left alone with him since and never will be. I was talking to her earlier today about the men in our family and I'm still thinking about how best to communicate with her how she is important and we do not tolerate being abused or sidelined below others needs. I'm working on it.

OP posts:
Orangesandlemons77 · 07/12/2024 13:40

OP you mention you went NC with your dad for years, what stopped that?

inigomontoyahwillcox · 07/12/2024 13:47

Orangesandlemons77 · 07/12/2024 13:40

OP you mention you went NC with your dad for years, what stopped that?

DD expressed a desire to see them again - I contacted them and made him agree to some ground rules that I wasn't going to negotiate on. I then met with them separately to reiterate to them my rules and then gradually started reintroduce visits.

OP posts:
inigomontoyahwillcox · 07/12/2024 13:48

It's all so fucked up it?! I'm now seeing that, with a lot of help from you all.

OP posts:
inigomontoyahwillcox · 07/12/2024 13:49

*isn't it (really need the edit function to be available on the app!)

OP posts:
Orangesandlemons77 · 07/12/2024 13:49

inigomontoyahwillcox · 07/12/2024 13:48

It's all so fucked up it?! I'm now seeing that, with a lot of help from you all.

Families of origin can be fucked up, yes, but that's not your fault OP.

Orangesandlemons77 · 07/12/2024 13:50

inigomontoyahwillcox · 07/12/2024 13:47

DD expressed a desire to see them again - I contacted them and made him agree to some ground rules that I wasn't going to negotiate on. I then met with them separately to reiterate to them my rules and then gradually started reintroduce visits.

So it sounds like you have had a good go at having some boundaries, well done.

Orangesandlemons77 · 07/12/2024 13:58

I should explain myself here OP, I grew up with parentification, it was my mother had the mental health issues and parents divorced when I was a teen, she would rely on me a lot for emotional support and would slag off dad to me etc.

dad tried to get me at 14, to meet the woman he had an affair with and mum then blamed me for that, and after that I was on 'his side' and she gave me the silent treatment.

I escaped to university but she tried to get me back and then went into mental hospital and dad would ring me to get me to come home and look after her etc.

I didn't and still remember the guilt etc, I am now NC and have my own family, two teenage sons and a husband. I find the OOTF site helpful.

Anyway enough of me going on about that, but I do understand, a bit, although I never went through some of the physical abuse you did. I hope some of the stuff I have shared is helpful, and you are not alone.

inigomontoyahwillcox · 07/12/2024 14:06

Orangesandlemons77 · 07/12/2024 13:58

I should explain myself here OP, I grew up with parentification, it was my mother had the mental health issues and parents divorced when I was a teen, she would rely on me a lot for emotional support and would slag off dad to me etc.

dad tried to get me at 14, to meet the woman he had an affair with and mum then blamed me for that, and after that I was on 'his side' and she gave me the silent treatment.

I escaped to university but she tried to get me back and then went into mental hospital and dad would ring me to get me to come home and look after her etc.

I didn't and still remember the guilt etc, I am now NC and have my own family, two teenage sons and a husband. I find the OOTF site helpful.

Anyway enough of me going on about that, but I do understand, a bit, although I never went through some of the physical abuse you did. I hope some of the stuff I have shared is helpful, and you are not alone.

My god @Orangesandlemons77 - what an absolute mind fuck that must have been for you. You were conditioned to feel guilt and obligation weren't you. What immense pressure. I am seeing some parallels.

OP posts:
SheilaFentiman · 07/12/2024 14:07

I’m so sorry your dad mistreated you so badly, OP.

murasaki · 07/12/2024 14:09

He's still doing it, but by emotional blackmail rather than violence. It might be time to withdraw from that relationship too.

SheilaFentiman · 07/12/2024 14:11

murasaki · 07/12/2024 14:09

He's still doing it, but by emotional blackmail rather than violence. It might be time to withdraw from that relationship too.

Good point.

pooperscoops · 07/12/2024 14:12

Lallydallydune · 07/12/2024 12:08

OP i still think you are doing too much for him

And you need to look at your own learned behaviour (you've learned that women should look after men).

Even if your brother is sick, he is not your responsibility in any way.

My older brother has had multiple mental health issues .

I do not do a thing for him . I do nothing for him.

I learned in the past that if I do anything he doesn't appreciate it. And he also doenst care about my life.

I do nothing for him

No good deed goes unpunished.

pooperscoops · 07/12/2024 14:29

inigomontoyahwillcox · 07/12/2024 13:24

I don't know @Lallydallydune - think I need to unpack that. I just know that the atmosphere in the house when I was a child was entirely dependent on my dad's mood, he dictated not only the mood but everything we did and if we defied him he either got very angry (he would loose control and I was hit/belted a lot) or we were all treading on eggshells until he deemed it to be over. My mother did get angry with him and they did argue, but she always capitulated in the end.

There was a situation years ago when I recognised that my dad started to behave towards my DD in a similar way as he did me as a child and I grabbed her and ran (along with DH). I went no contact for years. She's never been left alone with him since and never will be. I was talking to her earlier today about the men in our family and I'm still thinking about how best to communicate with her how she is important and we do not tolerate being abused or sidelined below others needs. I'm working on it.

I was talking to her earlier today about the men in our family and I'm still thinking about how best to communicate with her how she is important and we do not tolerate being abused or sidelined below others needs. I'm working on it.

Less words. All action. Role model it.

What does that look like in practice? It's boundaries with consequences. Consequences involve taking yourself out of punching distance. You've demonstrated that before with your DF. Just remove youself physically (including any way of communication) from their lives. I dont know what higher boundary / red line you would need in this situation. Either he means it - therefore no option NC or its and extreme threat to hurt and manipulate you - also IMHO abhorent and unacceptable. Its equivalent to the abusers who threaten suicide when their partner wants to leave - call their bluff and inform the professionals for a wellfare check - never be hijacked by their emotional blackmail.

A very important phrase when it comes to abuse (need to see manipulation as abuse / coercive control) related to MH is "It may explain it but it never excuses it*