4yo DD sleepover at uncles house?

[AEP123]

I need to know I’m not being pedantic or nasty.

DD loves her uncle, he visits mostly every other weekend. He’s offered to take her out for the day, fine by me I’m sure she’ll have a great time.

But then the subject of sleepovers came up. I’m uncomfortable with this.

I’ve based my reasons purely based on facts and statistics: child abuse is often carried out by male perpetrators who are known and trusted to their victims. This is enough for me to say no, I’m not comfortable with DD sleeping over his house.

For context, uncle is a single man nearing his 40’s who lives alone 40 minutes away, has no children and as far as I know, hasn’t been in a relationship.

I’ve discussed this with DH and he think I’m being extremely unreasonable. That he trusts his brother 100% and that I’m ’accusing’ him of something horrid. I’ve explained that I’m not accusing, I’m using facts and statistics to eliminate risk.

I also wouldn’t let DD have sleepovers at friends houses at this age anyway, he knows this but doesn’t think it’s the same because he’s family and he trusts him.

it’s left a horrible atmosphere in the house and I need to know I’ve done the right thing? I’d never want to put my children into that situation and would rather be safe than sorry - I’m sure many victims parents thought they could trust their child’s abusers before it came to light.

Also given that he’s suggested this which I agree is a bit of a red flag, I don’t think your daughter should be left unsupervised with him during the day either. Obviously don’t accuse him of anything outright cause you want to keep the family together, but I wouldn’t leave them alone without supervision.

Nope, I wouldn't do this and it's weird he's asked. Could be totally innocent but it's just not necessary and too far. My 4yo had a first sleepover at my brothers house but only as he's married with 4 kids so my 4yo was excited to be with their cousins for the night. They are also only 10 mins away. A lone single male? Not a chance.

YANBU
I actually think it's a bit odd he's suggesting it( lacking in self awareness rather than potential abuse I mean)

I agree with this also. Trust your instincts. As a PP suggested the PANTS talk is really important for all parents to do.

Is he so utterly oblivious to social norms? My husband is still nervous of being left alone with other people's kids . He wouldn't want anything to be misunderstood. The fact that this childless uncle is suggesting sleepovers is extremely strange. No single man in his right mind would put himself in such a vulnerable situation. You are 100% correct to not allow this, ever! 1 in 4 girls are sexually abused, by men, before the age of 18. Often by someone they know and trust. It's your job to protect your child from a known risk. No one ever wants to believe their loved one is capable of doing such a thing. Incidently it's now time for the " pants " talk with your daughter. Not just once but regularly.

Oh yes I forgot to reply about the PANTS talk.
We often reiterate what is and isn’t appropriate. Have correct names for all our bits and bobs (can call them bits day to day but she knows labia/vagina/penis ect)

Theyve also had a talk at school recently after DD cane home saying a boy in her class asked her to pull her pants down on the playground. I reported this to the school and they’ve had a class discussion about what is and isn’t appropriate.

Not a chance.

I wouldn’t let my brother look after my DD and he’s a dad himself. There are only 2 other people I’d ever trust her sleeping over at, my MIL & my mum.

trust your gut OP.

@livanlaterlaterlater
Totally agree! Weird that people are saying a 4 year old is too young to stay with granny. Most grandparents I know have had their GC since they were months old on a regular basis.

Women can be abusers too!

@mindutopia Also just I don’t understand why a grown man would want to hang out overnight with a 4 year old. I’d say the same about an aunt who didn’t have children too.

Would you not be upset if someone spoke about you like this? As an aunt without children I invited my nephews and nieces for sleepovers from the age of 2, because I loved them, and because they begged me for sleepovers, and because it gave my sister a break. I sometimes had them to stay for a week when childcare was in short supply. Children are very special and there's nothing weird or perverted about wanting to spend time with them and take care of them.
If OP has some good reason to suspect her BIL's motives, that is different of course.

Yes, but statistically much less likely

I wouldn't allow sleepovers at all. I wouldn't allow any lone adult male to look after my child. Stats.

No. My own brothers are great with my kids and unsupervised days out in public places I’m fine with (tho they usually come out with us or we do things as a big family) - but no way would I let them unsupervised have my daughters (2 and 9) stay at their house. Just absolutely no. I wouldn’t let my dad have her overnight either, unless my mum was there. Why take the risk? And why put them in that situation?

If I thought an uncle was a potential abuser then I wouldn’t let my children spend any time with him at all.

This thread is really sad to read.

This, if he is going to abuse her it can happen at any time!!!

If it was your brother asking would you feel the same?

No-one wouid want this from a 4 year old in their right mind, no.

The fact that this has been suggested would be a red flag to me

Surely statistically it's less likely that a male relative will commit child abuse though as opposed to committing it? (Unless this is common practice for uncles and I just wasn't aware!).

Although 4 does sound a bit young for sleepovers unless it's for a good reason.
But I also don't think I'd be suggesting my in-law was a kiddy fiddler without serious concerns.....some people might actually be offended by that!

You are absolutely not being unreasonable. I find it bizarre that he asked tbh!

I enjoy being a fun aunt, but have never felt the need to ask for my nieces/nephews to stay over without their parents.

Statistically, male relatives and male friends of the family are by far the biggest risk to children from a CSA perspective.

@henlake7 I don't understand your post is there a typo?

Unfortunately yes most abuse is someone the child knows. Unfortunately abusers don't come like the mad axe man, they are people they know and trust and abusers abuse that trust and can also groom parents.

I agree with the poster who said the very fact it's been asked for is a massive red flag.

Unfortunately I know this all too well.
With my own dc the only person I implicitly trust is my dh.
Everyone else I've let them have contact, time alone, taking them out or just being with us, I've always watched out for dc always watched hands, looks etc.
Always.
I've got a male friend I regard as a grandad, best friend amazing person. I still would never 100 trust him. No. Because we don't know people at the end of the day have some reserve always.
Just observe and watch.

So you let your brother have them during the day in public places? I’m puzzled what happens during the day if the two year old needs a wee. Does she just take herself off to the public toilets?

Does your dad know that you think k he might sexually abuse your DD’s if he had them alone overnight? Does your mum know how you feel towards your dad? There must be something from your past that makes you think dad would abuse them. @Katbum

I think YANBU regarding the sleepover, the reason is irrelevant. She's your child and you say when she and you are ready.
But I do think YABU* for the reason why. This may seem callus and rude, apologies op it doesn't mean to be. stats suggest that abuse is more likely to happen by someone you know and is more than likely going to be male. But if you think he's a risk you need to stop all contact. if he's going to abuse her, no sleepovers isn't going to change that. he'd just find opportunities when being the fun uncle.
Trust your gut and stand your ground.

*Editted as put yanbu in error.

I think I would have used another excuse for her not staying over. Eg. She won't sleep without you there, she gets nightmares and needs you or she's too young for sleepovers.

You're right about your decision though.