Just turned around and walked out of friends house. May have over reacted!

[SafeMouse]

Me (5'0 female) has a good friend (6'2 male). Every few weeks I go to his house for a few drinks and a catch up. This has been going on since 2019. We bubbled together during lockdown as we are both in single households.

Every summer I walk down to his. Its across the otherside of town about a 25 min walk. Part of the way is through a bit of a badly lit seedy area. When it starts to get dark I get an uber. Have for 5 years.
EVERY single bloody year when I start getting ubers I get 'lazy' jokes and teasing. I have patiently explained why I'm not comfortable walking in the dark. I have explained it in the context of Sarah Everard. I have made light of it. I have got annoyed. I've snapped. I've even had the uber drop me off a street away so he doesn't see.

Got to his tonight and get the 'haha, I saw the uber, feeling lazy today are we'?
I put my coat back on and walked out.
I'm now sitting in the pub at the end of his road wondering whether
A) go back and explain again for the 50th time why I don't walk in dodgy areas in the dark
B) order an uber and go back home.

I'm a little bit thinking I've overreacted but it's been the same joke for 5 sodding years with obviously no attempt to understand.

In my experience, some men absolutely get it. Men offering to walk women home to make sure they get there safely has been a thing for many, many years.

(Whether or not walking with the man is actually the safest option depends on the man, obviously!)

You haven't overreacted. He's not behaving as a friend should.

Text him. Tell him exactly how you feel and say that unless he can understand you won't be visiting again.

You of course are doing the right thing. If you don't feel safe this makes you even more vulnerable. Take care.

I'm willing to bet that if you scratched a little deeper OP you'd find he's got all kinds of awful opinions on women "taking everything in divorce" and women "who think they've been raped" etc. I'll bet he doesn't like women in general one little bit, not really, not even the ones he has sex with. He's just using you for company on Friday nights, probably considers you a saddo for always being available, especially when you keep coming back despite his insults. He doesn't respect you. Your mistake is in thinking it's because he doesn't understand your perspective, when in reality he just doesn't care.

No kind of friend would let you walk in the dark, through a seedy area, knowing that it not only frightens you, but it puts you at risk.

Go home.

This is no longer a friendship.

Is it a fwb situation? Either way, he doesn't care about you or your safety.

Ignore him. If he can't get the message, then you are better off without, wine or no wine.

I think @Icarus40 you've hit the core of the problem. It's never occurred to a lot of men that women feel vulnerable walking on their own after dark or that women make subtle changes in their behaviour to stay safe

Someone who continues to make the same “joke” knowing it upsets/angers you is no friend. He sounds nasty, juvenile and without empathy.

What did he do when you left. Did he follow you or has he tried to contact you to apologise or as a minimum check that you are okay?

I would say that you did not overreact at all, but equally don't throw your friendship away. However, before you go to his place again I would speak to him on the phone or meet somewhere neutral and explain your position, and say very clearly that you will not be meeting up again unless he tells you that (a) he understands and agrees with your reasons for wanting to take an uber, and (b) that he will never again use that as the basis for a joke. Never ever ever.

If he is a friend he will realise he has crossed a line, agree, and probably feel a bit of an idiot.

If he refuses, then he was never that much of a friend to begin with.

Why the fuck can't he go with you if he thinks you should walk?

Definitely not over reacting. Hopefully he'll stop now.

You've not over reacted. Is he very shit at conversation and it's an annoying habit/ ritual he's got into to break the ice? Does he say it because he thinks it's funny getting a rise out of you? You've told him and told him and told him it's not funny and he's not listened. His response to you walking out will be interesting. I hope he's not a twat and your friendship is salvageable. Sometimes we really really want it to work with people despite an aspect of them that is majorly incompatible, and we keep squinting and overlooking it and making excuses for them to ourselves. But sometimes they just cross a line and you can't see them the same way anymore.

All of this is true. But fear isn't rational and pays no heed to stats. Most women don't enjoy feeling afraid, even if they know the fear is disproportionate, so they take steps to avoid it.

Also, just because it's less common than acquaintance rape, that doesn't mean stranger rape isn't a real risk. I was attacked by a stranger many years ago, and it is not something I want to happen again.

I still walk, cycle and run alone after dark, but I avoid areas which are badly lit, deserted, or are known to be crime hotspots. If I have to travel through an area like that, I drive.

@Bunny44 whilst I agree with the overall point you are making...

For me, it's not fear of being murdered necessarily. But so many women experience harassment, unwanted attention, sexual assaults etc. And, more than men, these happen in public and are not reported.

I have had someone walk behind me and poke me with a vibrator, been followed and asked for my number constantly and told more times than I care to count to 'cheer up love' (although less so in my 40s!)

It is the unwanted attention that is insidious and creates the fear of what it could escalate to and men do not experience this nor understand it

OP, your friend does not understand and you were right to walk out

So basically he is belittling you for taking an Uber once you would be walking in the dark. A friend should not belittle you, regardless of what it is about. As soon as you start having to explain yourself, you are on the back foot. So, I would be taking the Uber home again.

And to the poster who said you would be statistically more likely to be attacked by someone you know, that is not really the point. The point is that OP has made a decision to take an Uber and he is belittling her for that decision. Doesn’t matter the ins and outs of statistics here, it is the OP’s decision and what makes her more comfortable.

Part of the reason women don't get physically assaulted/murdered as often as men is precisely because they don't take the same risks because they fear sexual assault. To get more useful statistics you would have to compare two people doing the exact same thing - strolling down an underpass in the dark for example and see the rate at which they are attacked. Thats not to victim blame - when a person is mugged for example it is 100% the fault of the mugger. But for example, I might be very afraid of being in a situation where I could get mugged because that would also be a situation where I was sexually assaulted or raped (and actually it often is) whereas a man is only afraid of being mugged down that dark alley - and balances that risk against convenience differently. Also, a man who is six foot knows he has at least a chance of fighting of a male attacker. That causes him to take more risks around strangers (and unfortunately will often then find out that he can't fight of that particular attacker. Or maybe he does and the attacker dies. Either way, its a male injury/death).

I don't think women should live their lives in fear. And if a woman does walk in the dark and happens to be attacked she is not to blame for that. neither is a man doing the same thing. But to pretend it doesn't/shouldn't influence women's decisions is ridiculous. I do go running at night. But I stick to the main roads and don't go through the woods. When I mentioned my running route to someone, they assumed I was "afraid" to go through the woods because I was afraid of the dark. Sigh.

Good for you. I think you probably needed to snap at some point as you must have the patience of a saint to put up with this for so long

It's a really big issue to be willfully deaf about.

It shows he doesn't understand your reality at all and has no intention of trying.

Don't go back, he's a waste of space. He does'nt care if you were attacked or robbed or worse

@biscuitandcake yes! 'Safety work' is something that most women do for any journey with perceived 'danger'.

"Is it dark where I get off the bus? Can I go a different way to avoid that street? I'll plan to leave with a friend to share a cab. I'll go the long way around so it's a lit street".

It's exhausting and most men don't even think about it

If it was me I would do B and block him on everything. Probably an overreaction but enough is enough.

The only thing you've been unreasonable about is telling him 50 fucking times why you do it before walking out on his stupid 'jokes'.

This is a good point.

Both my DH and I are runners. He has never been harassed, intimidated or assaulted while out running. I've lost count of the number of times I have (some of which were genuinely scary e.g. being followed at running pace by men in a van telling me what they wanted to do to me)

It doesn't have to be murder or rape to be really, really shit.

Agree. He sounds (willfully) clueless.

Also, consider whether you're doing all the work in this friendship.

Send him the saoirse Ronan Graham Norton moment that went viral recently. Men just don't get it.

As teens my sons were always waking the girls in their friendship groups home. Men do get it if they are aware at all of what women have to think about. If not it's because they are choosing to remain ignorant.