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Just turned around and walked out of friends house. May have over reacted!

360 replies

SafeMouse · 12/11/2024 19:13

Me (5'0 female) has a good friend (6'2 male). Every few weeks I go to his house for a few drinks and a catch up. This has been going on since 2019. We bubbled together during lockdown as we are both in single households.

Every summer I walk down to his. Its across the otherside of town about a 25 min walk. Part of the way is through a bit of a badly lit seedy area. When it starts to get dark I get an uber. Have for 5 years.
EVERY single bloody year when I start getting ubers I get 'lazy' jokes and teasing. I have patiently explained why I'm not comfortable walking in the dark. I have explained it in the context of Sarah Everard. I have made light of it. I have got annoyed. I've snapped. I've even had the uber drop me off a street away so he doesn't see.

Got to his tonight and get the 'haha, I saw the uber, feeling lazy today are we'?
I put my coat back on and walked out.
I'm now sitting in the pub at the end of his road wondering whether
A) go back and explain again for the 50th time why I don't walk in dodgy areas in the dark
B) order an uber and go back home.

I'm a little bit thinking I've overreacted but it's been the same joke for 5 sodding years with obviously no attempt to understand.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
Cindersroo · 13/11/2024 23:53

Re. Male suicide we are allgoing to need to employ some critical thinking here instead of just regurgitating what the mainstream media are pushing . And also bear in mind - women attempt suicide at a higher rate of men they just use less gruesome methods
which are less “successful”

This article provides an Alternative view on it

“: There is no shortage of articles on and offline bemoaning the increase of loneliness among men. Professionals have called it the pandemic of male loneliness; younger and middle-aged men are the loneliest they have been in generations and everyone is ostensibly supposed to be eaten up with worry and concern over it, especially women, we’re told. Let’s talk about this ‘crisis’, what has caused it and why nobody needs to be asking women to fix it.”

https://potentash.com/2023/07/01/lets-talk-mens-loneliness-crisis/

GoldenPheasant · 13/11/2024 23:57

Must admit I'm struggling to get past "Me has a good friend", Why not "I have a good friend"?

Enough4me · 14/11/2024 00:00

What about critically analysing why women cannot talk about the very real fear of male violence without hearing, "but think of the men"?

HollyKnight · 14/11/2024 00:03

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You need to direct this speech to the people who do the hurting. Hint: it's not the women. Go tell them to stop hurting people and show some respect.

Women would just like to not have to spend their money getting an Uber at night for what should be a 15-minute walk. And they would also like to not have to brush off jokes about being lazy because of it.

Sheri99 · 14/11/2024 00:08

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HollyKnight · 14/11/2024 00:13

Did you teach your sons that if a woman hurts them it's understandable if they go on to attack other women? And women deserve it for not appreciating what they bring to the table. If women showed more respect men wouldn't feel the need to beat and rape them.

Enough4me · 14/11/2024 00:17

Men's right activists - skilled at ignoring the truth, blaming women.

Sheri99 · 14/11/2024 00:19

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Sheri99 · 14/11/2024 00:21

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SimpleThings101 · 14/11/2024 00:26

Catsmere · 13/11/2024 22:56

@Catiette Hugs, that sounds creepy at best. The body language doesn't sound remotely like "Bugger, this isn't my floor," here.

That's another thing we're lumbered with because of men - constantly second-guessing ourselves. Because - as in the OP - it isn't Nice or Kind or even Reasonable to be wary or suspicious of male behaviour, or to take precautions. We're always supposed to give them the benefit of the doubt, even when our gut is screaming warnings at us. And then, or course, it's heads-I-win, tails-you-lose when we do what we're socialised to do, and a man rapes or abducts or murders us, or subjects us to "domestic" violence. Why didn't you get away? Why didn't you take a cab? Why did you, why didn't you? It's the old "when you're a woman, you're wrong".

Edited

I’m so done with “the benefit of the doubt”.
It never works in our favour.

Sheri99 · 14/11/2024 00:32

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Sheri99 · 14/11/2024 00:34

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SimpleThings101 · 14/11/2024 00:37

HollyKnight · 13/11/2024 23:45

Lol you carry a gun because you know you have no chance against a man who wants to hurt you. Your husband carries a gun because he knows he has no chance against a man with a gun.

Now, if you were in the UK, you wouldn't be shouting about how both men and women are equally in danger of walking at night because you would realise men don't worry about men with guns here. But women always have to worry about men, gun or not.

men don't worry about men with guns here. But women always have to worry about men, gun or not.”

This is the reality of life in the UK & Ireland.

Enough4me · 14/11/2024 00:38

I don't want to learn martial arts to protect myself from a rapist. I want men who are rapists to not be rapists.

See the difference is not to blame the victim or potential victims.

SimpleThings101 · 14/11/2024 01:01

Why FEAR male violence? Where is it pervasive in modern society today?”

in the home

Sheri99 · 14/11/2024 01:54

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Sheri99 · 14/11/2024 02:27

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MarkingBad · 14/11/2024 03:10

@Sheri99

I've read your posts and in some respects I hear what you are saying.

In truth abusive relationships almost never start with an immediate smack of head against the wall, it's a slow insidious everyday actions that you don't notice. It creeps into your head, you start to doubt yourself you become less than you were. Eventally you get to the physical pain but by then you are isolated, ignored, and doubt yourself.

It takes just 21 hours for a trained person to break your will. No one can withstand it, it is how cults work so quickly on their followers, but it also happens in home, workplaces, and groups on a daily basis.

I have spent most of my life with mainly men, I enjoy their company, but I also know I have to have very strong and clear boundaries with them too. I never have workplace relationships, ever, I never flirt, I never take part in sexual banter, I try to stop those who overstep the mark or can't take no for an answer at the earliest opportunity. But this is hardwon knowledge of the little tests you get put through, the light touch on the shoulder when they want to speak to you, the hand on your waist that is swiftly removed, the longer chats when you are on your own, the standing close as though you have your own little in-jokes, the compliments that increase from work to personal life to looks to sex, the asking about your personal life that is more than just usual office chat, the being everywhere where you are and often in your eye line. All very nebulous at first and could be nothing, could be something you have to keep in mind all the time.

Yet 7 different men have seriously physically assaulted me. Some of these men I knew for over 5 years and never once let on they harboured certain ideas about me or our "relationship" or just sexual interest. I never once gave them cause to think they had anything of the sort.

Over the years there have been many more who have pushed their luck, groped every bit a man is usually interested in, tried to trap me in situations I did not want and fought hard to get away from.

I'm no weakling, I'm physically strong and have proved able to think through emergency situations I defend myself with vigour but I'm no match, all I can hope for is to do enough damage to make him think twice. When even professional soldiers can freeze in a situation they have encountered not once but a number of times, what chance to non trained people have in a situation they are unfamiliar with. Then all the people men and women who excuse the male behaviour as a joke, something that needn't be complained about, I've even encountered the Oh just let him do it, it'll cheer the grumpy bugger up.

The sad truth is most assaults women suffer are from men they know well.

It is all very well blaming people for not making the right choice, for not reading all the signs, but no one is perfect and no one can be perfect all of the time. Senarios where a man raises a hand or tries to grope a woman who then fiercely pushes him away have no context. Many incidents where violence and sexual assault takes place have so many features and complexities you can't say "why didn''t they just do XX" it's not a formulaic thing. Real life it doesn't work like that for most, if it worked for you then great, but your relationship with your DH is not the same as Sally whose so tired from full time work, checking in on grandparents, and 3 kids running around with no help and a husband who has spent years telling her how much he loves her but she is never allowed to visit friends or family without him in tow pulling a face, everything she does and says is wrong or she is not as intelligent as him, and how he could get another woman to look after him easily and she would be homeless because she'd get nothing from him, he'd take the kids and she'd never see them again etc. Then she spills his mug of tea and all hell breaks loose and she is covered in bruises everywhere that is normally covered and so confused about what is happening she stays because it's the only thing she thinks she can do. He holds all the cards not because she is weak or stupid but because she is worn out, worn down, and is not an expert psychologist. Sadly Sally is not a rare case, in fact she is the lived experience of many women world over.

Its worth remembering that when someone assaults you it is their choice and their choice alone. No one can force a reluctant person to assault you, would be abusers also have the choice to walk away, reflect on the situation and discuss it when things have calmed down.

It is never the victims fault it is only ever the abuser. Too few people realise that, this attitude needs to change.

And like I say I do like men, but I also have been in too many situations where I understand the level of cruelty they can inflict too and the cover they get from others to behave like a prick.

While I understand some of your points I cannot stand by and not say anything to people who misunderstand how abuse happens and how they are so strong and brave they can handle it. And in truth I really hope you never ever get to find out because as mentally and physically strong as I am, I too have been abused by men I would have sworn up and down in my younger less experienced were decent kind family men ... until they did it to me.

Catiette · 14/11/2024 06:45

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Your language shows you're very distressed by the thought of men being hurt by discussions such as these.

However, over 98% of sexual attacks are by men, and the percentage for violent crime overall is not far behind. There is no argument here. So this is a place where women are discussing this massively disproportionate violence, and their own hurt and fears - of losing their lives, of rape and of abduction, because of it.

There is an urgent need for debate about modern masculinity, male suicide etc. There's also, I have no doubt, plenty of emapthy for this. We all have husbands, brothers, sons, colleagues and friends. But this is not the place for that discussion.

Two possibilities:

  1. Starting your own thread would give your concerns more attention. It would also prevent giving the impression that your focus here is less on the men, and more on silencing women. Show us this isn't the case by allowing us our voices, and raising yours in a context in which people will be more likely to listen.

  2. Continue to engage in this thread - all voices and perspectives are interesting - but please post in a more respectful way. Your tone is furious and hyperbolic, repeatedly dismissing women's fear as ridiculous. Please remember that the statistics, like those above, also show that a good proportion of the posters here will be survivors of exactly the kind of horrors at the hands of men that we're discussing. Please just listen to them and respond more thoughtfully, with debate as opposed to rhetoric - and without such defensive dismissal of their words.

TarantinoIsAMisogynist · 14/11/2024 08:13

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When I was doing abusive spouse counseling for partners...

Bloody hell

Asyoulikeit123 · 14/11/2024 08:59

Nope, I'd have done the same, he sounds irritating, you are not better unreasonable xx

TreesAtSea · 14/11/2024 09:22

Catiette · 13/11/2024 21:47

I wish there was a way we could make them see it.

The odd comment that men are proportionately more likely to be attacked misses the point, too. As PP noted, the numbers aren't that straightforward. Women experience deliberately intimidating behaviour which could be a prelude to violence all the time - daily or weekly, for many of us - and reporting rates of all degrees of attack are appallingly low. Caroline Criado Perez dissects the stats behind the "men are more at risk" gambit in "Invisible Women". It's not easy to read.

And anyway, the real issue isn't the numbers. It's what our chances are if we are attacked. It's the strength differential (I mean, Duh!) And yet we don't tend to hear much about it. Misplaced perceptions that being a feminist means denying this? All those modern kick-ass heroines? Perhaps just the sheer discomfort of facing such an uncomfortable truth...

A thriller I read recently put it really well. Paraphrased...

It's hard to grasp the devastating simplicity of someone with more physical strength than you. It reduces you to nothing.

If a man wants to kill you, he will.

The fact is, we live with this knowledge every day. Every encounter with a strange male in an enclosed or isolated space is an act of trust. Because if he wants to, he can.

And the other key difference, of course, is what he may "want" to do. A burst of competitive anger on a Saturday night is a universe away from the savage gratification that lies behind so much male-on-female violence, with the potential for rape, abduction and worse.

Living with all this is a uniquely female experience.

And NO, this ISN'T to say we're victims, or living in fear, or pathetically limiting our own lives despite our admittedly excellent odds of not becoming tomorrow's next horror story. FWIW, I'm more independent than many, do a lot alone including travelling abroad, and thoroughly enjoy it.

But am I aware of these awful realities? Yes, of course I am. All women are, on some level. And it's fucking exhausting and so, so wrong.

So when men don't listen to us on this, and laugh it off or "rationalise" it, do they really think that their dismissal somehow reassures us? Cos common sense would say it's far more likely just to compound how utterly powerless we can sometimes feel.

#pissedoffonyourbehalfOP! (And trying to think which words may get it through to his - quite literally, lucky bugger - thicker-than-our skull).

Edited

This

MeanWeedratStew · 14/11/2024 09:26

JFC, the hateful misogyny being spewed by @Sheri99 is heartbreaking.

Women need to learn when to stop speaking? Really? How about men keep their hands to themselves, just like we all learned in primary school?

And apparently we can all expect to be raped if our sexuality is showing in any way. I wonder if @Sheri99 has ever seen the “What Were You Wearing?” exhibit.

As for “situational awareness” - OP showed that perfectly well when she chose to take an Uber. Also when she chose to disengage from a man who would rather she put herself in danger than be “lazy”.

@Sheri99 , you are either a man out for a bit of trolling, or a woman who always puts men first, silencing women and trying to discredit their experiences. Either way, what you have said here is disgusting. Why not find a men’s forum and take your pick-me energy there? You won’t find many blokes here to validate you.

Problemzapper · 14/11/2024 09:33

He obviously thinks it is a funny joke which you both share, but hopefully now he will realise how upsetting it is for you (you may need to text him the reason you walked out if you didn't say anything before you left, just to spell it out) and may drop the stupid, antagonising 'joke' in future.

Some men are totally clueless about how unsafe women feel about walking in the dark alone, but if you've explained it over and over before to him, then he really doesn't have that excuse, he must just think you're being dramatic probably - which you are most certainly NOT!

helpplease01 · 14/11/2024 10:01

This is about him refusing to acknowledge your safety concerns as a woman and his response to make you feel shame for being Lazy, disguising it as humour when he’s clearly ignoring what you’re saying. It’s gaslighting. He sounds an arse to be honest. Listen to your feelings, they are our warning signs.
you can ask him an open question, does he have any idea why his remarks upset you. If he’s clueless, then he’s thick as shit.