The grown-ups have left the building - Trump thread #136

[Spandauer]

As we descend into 4 years of madness...

(thanks @Jaichangecentfoisdenom and* *@AcrossthePond55 for the suggestions)

Previous thread:
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5200273-hands-across-the-water-trump-thread-135

It's so depressingly predictable. She slayed. Clearly actual 'Christian values' are anathema to them.

I feel like we're entering a world of just constant and relentless gaslighting.

It was a nazi salute, it wasn't a nazi salute, so what if it was a nazi salute, nazi salutes aren't always bad, but it wasn't one, although maybe it was, nazi salutes are free speech, but maybe it wasn't even one, roman salutes are different than nazi salutes, he was just throwing his love out to the room, but nazis love people too, he's too autistic to know what he was doing, although maybe he wasn't doing what you think, the other side needs to not vilify nazis, nazis deserve respect too...

@Wallaw whilst I don’t want to get into a trans debate on this thread I do think it’s unfair to say things like “only 43 trans athletes”. That’s 43 males in female sports too many! The knock on effect that has is incalculable - the women/girls overlooked to make way for them; the potential scholarships lost as a result; the records broken that no natal female has a hope of bettering, etc.

I vehemently oppose Trump and 99% of what he stands for, but if the Dems hadn’t tried to shout down people who simply said “This isn’t fair” or label them bigots, then we simply wouldn’t be where we are right now.

You've missed out he's autistic so it's ablist to criticise his salute arm action.

I agree this isn't the place to get into this (although it does seem to come up quite a lot on this thread, which I mostly ignore), but I do want to say,

1. my dd is a college athlete and she and her teammates are completely unbothered by this.
2. that my larger point is that this issue is so far out of proportion to the terrible things this administration is doing on an hourly basis to impact women's lives negatively, women turning out to vote for Trump over it is like opting to eat a bowl of broken glass soup because the alternative is chicken soup and your aunt's best friend's cousin once choked on a bone in a bowl of chicken soup.

Ok, I'll back off now.

Wallaw,
Your daughter may not be bothered
but lots of female athletes are.
This image does the rounds and highlights the basic unfairness

I'm always willing to reconsider things, but an image with no context and no source is not going to be persuasive. Can you give me some?

A lot of the people represented by the red squares will be the same person repeated (A is a contact for B, but also for C, J and M). Likewise for the yellow and purple squares as teams play the same few other teams several times, or the same athletes try out for several contests.

The image is illustrative only
It was shared to do with this story.
https://www.espn.co.uk/college-sports/story/_/id/42549609/inside-san-jose-state-university-2024-volleyball-season-gender-fairness-safety

Female volleyball nets are lower than men's.
Males should not be in female teams.

An illustrative only image, that I can't find an explanatory link to in the article is not going to serve any purpose with me.

Additionally, we know nothing about this player. The one male to female trans person I know is about 5'4". All I can think is all these young women depriving themselves of opportunity over one person. It brings the glass vs chicken soup analogy to mind.

The number of women whose future will be severely affected by not winning at college volleyball, for me, pales in significance to the number of women who will be denied seats at the table in the boardroom or access to healthcare or fair maternity leave. Everything to do with straight men and society and nothing to do with trans people, but I suppose pitting two marginalised groups against each other is a strategy with a proven track record.

And there's this:
(source https://edition.cnn.com/2024/11/30/us/san-jose-state-volleyball-transgender-player-what-we-know/index.html)

There is a lack of significant research – and scientific consensus – on whether trans athletes, particularly trans women, have an athletic advantage over their cisgender peers, even after they have undergone testosterone-reducing therapies. Though research is ongoing, a 2017 review in the journal Sports Medicine found “no direct or consistent research” showing trans people have an advantage.

RELATED ARTICLEBoise State withdraws from Mountain West volleyball tournament match against San Jose State amid transgender claims
Experts say it would be nearly impossible to determine what gives any person an advantage. For example, it is hard to determine whether testosterone exposure that a trans woman would have before transition, provides more of an advantage than a person who was born tall – which studies show can run faster because of it – or having a variant of the ACTN3 or ACE genes that may give an athlete a genetic advantage for speed and strength. Just like cisgender athletes, trans athlete’s abilities vary.

This is his great plan for ending the invasion/war? I'm sure Putin is quaking in his boots! (Plus a few historical facts seem to have gone astray as per usual)

In a post on Truth Social, Donald Trump has threatened to impose “high levels of Taxes, Tariffs, and Sanctions” on Russia and its allies if it does not stop its invasion of Ukraine.
The post comes after Trump failed to achieve his campaign promise of ending the war in the country within 24 hours of taking office. Here’s what the president wrote:
I’m not looking to hurt Russia. I love the Russian people, and always had a very good relationship with President Putin – and this despite the Radical Left’s Russia, Russia, Russia HOAX. We must never forget that Russia helped us win the Second World War, losing almost 60,000,000 lives in the process. All of that being said, I’m going to do Russia, whose Economy is failing, and President Putin, a very big FAVOR. Settle now, and STOP this ridiculous War! IT’S ONLY GOING TO GET WORSE. If we don’t make a “deal,” and soon, I have no other choice but to put high levels of Taxes, Tariffs, and Sanctions on anything being sold by Russia to the United States, and various other participating countries. Let’s get this war, which never would have started if I were President, over with! We can do it the easy way, or the hard way – and the easy way is always better. It’s time to “MAKE A DEAL.” NO MORE LIVES SHOULD BE LOST!!!

Posted in another thread (by me 😎)

I vehemently oppose Trump and 99% of what he stands for, but if the Dems hadn’t tried to shout down people who simply said “This isn’t fair” or label them bigots, then we simply wouldn’t be where we are right now.

Trump wasn't solely elected because of his opportunistic trans stance. It was a complete box set of misogyny, racism, entitlement, and good old bile that did the trick.

And remember it wasn't a landslide by any measure. Which will become apparent as time goes on.

To give him credit, his solution to ending the Ukraine war might be a day late, but at least it's a master class in diplomacy and statesmanship 🙄

The man is an imbecile

@SerendipityJane I don’t disagree that Trump and his team were opportunistic in exploiting this area, but it was an open goal by the Dems. Nobody forced them to go down the road of, for example, congratulating Dylan Mulvaney on his “girlhood”; nobody forced them to amend Title IX in favour of gender identity rather than on the basis of sex, etc.

The Dems have to answer for their fair share on the topic of women’s rights - Obama could have codified (I think that’s the right term?) Roe v Wade during his 8 years, etc.

Like I said, I’m not a Trump supporter by any stretch of the imagination and I’d like to think my many years of posting on these threads will back that up, but were I American I don’t think I could bring myself to vote Democrat at the moment either.

Whilst it's a risible bit of foot-stamping, that foot-stamping at least puts the onus on Putin, describes him as having agency to end the war and as the party against whom there should be sanctions.

That's a big difference in tone from the Kremlin messaging that Russia's actions are inevitable and a mere automated response to the actions of others. So it could be worse.

(I'll skim over the orange one's failure to grasp there already are sanctions against Russia & various oligarchs. Got to take the wins where we can.)

Well, yes, but considering there are sanctions, how is this supposed to work?

I take it the hair on fire analogy hasn't crossed the pond ?

"That and a dollar buys you a subway ticket"

great quote ...

Oh agreed, it doesn't make any difference.

This is better than making a difference in a bad way.

(Yes the bar is low. It's Trump.)

Musk has had his sights set on Wikipedia for a while now. Since they haven't edited out the involuntary nazi-muscle in his right arm he's a bit pee'd off with them and wants them gone.

www.citationneeded.news/elon-musk-and-the-rights-war-on-wikipedia/

Can't we defund Musk ? Although he may be doing that for us ....

We're trying...
https://www.404media.co/hundreds-of-subreddits-are-considering-banning-all-links-to-x/

(apologies that all the links are showing the nazi)

Must go and donate again to Wikipedia

The RLNI effect ?

I'm happy to start a new thread when the time comes (soonish) - or are people now at a stage of being ready/wanting to let them fall by the wayside?

Any suggestions for a title if it's a 👍🏻?