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The grown-ups have left the building - Trump thread #136

1000 replies

Spandauer · 09/11/2024 18:56

As we descend into 4 years of madness...

(thanks @Jaichangecentfoisdenom and* *@AcrossthePond55 for the suggestions)

Previous thread:
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5200273-hands-across-the-water-trump-thread-135

The grown-ups have left the building - Trump thread #136
OP posts:
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116
Jaichangecentfoisdenom · 29/11/2024 09:47

I hope all our lovely American friends who participate in these threads had a very Happy Thanksgiving yesterday, and that your Friday is not too Black given what the GOP*/Republicans (great idea from CSK) are currently up to.
*Did that not used to stand for "Grand Old Party", or have I got it round to my neck (as my Greek MIL used to say)?

CaveMum · 29/11/2024 10:15

Interesting TRIP US again today (Goalhanger should pay me commission for all the plugging I do!)

Mooch says that Senate Republicans are starting to grow a backbone. That it was them who took out Gaetz by making it clear to him and Vance that if they pushed ahead with the nomination they would force a full confirmation hearing and would put the findings of the Ethics Committee on record.

We’ll see if they hold their nerve over some of the other questionable nominees, though I’m not holding my breath!

Spandauer · 29/11/2024 11:01

Encouraging scraps - I'll take whatever is served CaveMum.

Maybe the Senate Repugs who aren't up for reelection in 2026 will feel "brave" and safe enough to challenge some of That Guy's crap?

thehill.com/homenews/senate/5013277-2026-key-senate-races-watch/amp/

OP posts:
bloodredfeaturewall · 02/12/2024 07:40

so, the pardon.

what do you think?

not really surprising is it

InMySpareTime · 02/12/2024 07:45

Newscast were discussing the pardon and it came down to "he'll be criticised either way, but he'd regret not doing it more than he'd regret doing it"

Jaichangecentfoisdenom · 02/12/2024 07:51

Given what's about to happen in the form of Trump, if I were Biden, I would have no compunction about going back on my word and pardoning Hunter at this point.

Spandauer · 02/12/2024 08:10

Sauce for the goose...

Hunter Biden did break the law but his prosecution was political IMO.

It may be a personal and selfish act but at the end of a lifetime spent in government Joe Biden probably felt he could now take something for himself.

OP posts:
DuncinToffee · 02/12/2024 08:28

It was his right to do so and I can't blame him

pointythings · 02/12/2024 08:44

bloodredfeaturewall · 02/12/2024 07:40

so, the pardon.

what do you think?

not really surprising is it

I think 'good for him'. Why should he give a shit for what the US electorate think? They voted for corruption and grift, so they should be fine with this.

DuncinToffee · 02/12/2024 09:14

This post by Dmitry Grozoubinski sums it up for me

I don't love it either, but I'm not sure how you tell a man that he should let his only surviving son rot in prison to respect norms, institutions, and the rule of law, when the country you devoted your life to serving just pretty comprehensively voted they don't give a shit about any of that.

bloodredfeaturewall · 02/12/2024 09:48

no, I'm not surprised and I don't blame him.

the orange one would hsve done the same I'm sure.

Jaichangecentfoisdenom · 02/12/2024 10:27

DuncinToffee · 02/12/2024 09:14

This post by Dmitry Grozoubinski sums it up for me

I don't love it either, but I'm not sure how you tell a man that he should let his only surviving son rot in prison to respect norms, institutions, and the rule of law, when the country you devoted your life to serving just pretty comprehensively voted they don't give a shit about any of that.

Thank you for sharing that, @DuncinToffee. It's incredibly well put. (Trundles off to find out more about Dmitry Grozoubinski.)

CaveMum · 02/12/2024 10:36

The pardon isn’t a surprise. Mooch has said more than once that if Biden had offered Trump a pardon 2 years ago on the condition he doesn’t run again he’d have taken it - Trumps #1 priority is himself and if they’d done some kind of deal with him early enough he’d have bitten their hand off.

Jaichangecentfoisdenom · 02/12/2024 10:44

Except Trump would have taken the pardon and also run again,@CaveMum.

CaveMum · 02/12/2024 11:36

Jaichangecentfoisdenom · 02/12/2024 10:44

Except Trump would have taken the pardon and also run again,@CaveMum.

Ha yes, you’re probably right!

Wallaw · 02/12/2024 13:52

I've been hoping he'd do this. Hunter is (was?) a mess, but there's no question this was a politically motivated prosecution, and with Kash Patel potentially heading up the FBI it was probably going to get worse. Had this been in reverse the whole special counsel and prosecution would have been quashed on day one.

I do wish he'd waited until his last day, though, because with he chaos of the Trumpsters coming in, it wouldn't have dominated the news cycle with Dems eating themselves over it in the same way. I'm worried that the timing is going to result in nonstop agonising and take the focus off these horrifying nominations. I also hope he gives pre-emptive pardons to those who might want them who will be in the firing line, i.e. journalists and justice department officials like Jack Smith and his team, Andrew McCabe, etc.

Adding - George Conway seems to be of the opinion that the justice department should declassify all the information they have on Trump and release it. I'm sure they won't - nothing is going to shake Garland's blind devotion to institutions, it seems - but I wish they would.

Wallaw · 02/12/2024 13:56

And the way it's completely overshadowed Trump appointing the convicted felon he pardoned, who also happens to be Ivanka's father-in-law, as ambassador to France (a country we used to care about) 😅

AcrossthePond55 · 02/12/2024 14:21

@DuncinToffee

Grozoubinski's words have it to a 'tee'. My first thought was 'sauce for the goose, sauce for the gander'. On SCROTUS' first day in office I'm sure he's going to issue pardons like they're going out of style. No need to wait for the end of his term, is there? And if SCROTUS can (and did) pardon his SiL's father, why shouldn't Biden pardon his own son?

I'd love to see Biden pull whatever shit he can in the next month in the form of Executive Orders, pardons, treaties, trade agreements, judgeships, whatever a POTUS can do without Congressional approval. May as well go out in a blaze of glory, eh?

AcrossthePond55 · 02/12/2024 14:25

Adding - George Conway seems to be of the opinion that the justice department should declassify all the information they have on Trump and release it. I'm sure they won't - nothing is going to shake Garland's blind devotion to institutions, it seems - but I wish they would.

@Wallaw

I wonder if Biden can unclassify them? I seem to remember that during the MarALago documents scandal it was said that a POTUS does have the power to declassify documents, but they have to do it 'officially' (SCROTUS' team said a POTUS could do it simply by 'thinking it') which I assume would be with some form of official document/official order.

Add that to the list of my 'burn this mother down' actions Biden should take before he leaves office.

SerendipityJane · 02/12/2024 16:08

AcrossthePond55 · 02/12/2024 14:25

Adding - George Conway seems to be of the opinion that the justice department should declassify all the information they have on Trump and release it. I'm sure they won't - nothing is going to shake Garland's blind devotion to institutions, it seems - but I wish they would.

@Wallaw

I wonder if Biden can unclassify them? I seem to remember that during the MarALago documents scandal it was said that a POTUS does have the power to declassify documents, but they have to do it 'officially' (SCROTUS' team said a POTUS could do it simply by 'thinking it') which I assume would be with some form of official document/official order.

Add that to the list of my 'burn this mother down' actions Biden should take before he leaves office.

It would be a tactic to create so many cases that have to go to SCOTUS that they just will not have the bandwidth to do anything else.

However, people really should be aware of why we say "hoist with their own petard".

That said, since POTUS has almost blanket immunity now, it's up to Biden what he chooses to do with it. Pre-emptively staving off an insurrection by locking up anyone who looks funny (i.e. old and orange) could be a thing. Also expelling anyone whose name rhymes with "dusk" from the US after revoking their citizenship.

Walking on the cracks in the sidewalk.

Walking around in a built up area after dark in a loud shirt.

There are quite a few things POTUS could crack down on.

SerendipityJane · 02/12/2024 16:11

Returning to the real world (!) it was interesting to read that bond markers might act as a brake on Trump, as they did with Truss (two excellent Wordle starters, by the way).

Which sort of starts to explain where the Truss "blob" narrative stems from. It's the dark forces learning from their mistakes and trying to go against what defeated them last time. Which suggests what is going to be on the Project 2025 to-do list.

AcrossthePond55 · 02/12/2024 17:19

@SerendipityJane

I realize that Biden going 'no holds barred' could be a double edged sword in 'normal times'. But since we aren't in normal times and SCROTUS has made it clear he intends to use the US Govt as his personal weapon of revenge and granting of 'favour', how much worse can it get if Biden does a bit of the same thing? (All that is purely rhetorical BTW, I can't see Biden going nuclear)

IMHO Biden needs to pardon himself for 'crimes real or imagined' because I have a feeling that SCROTUS can't wait to launch investigations against him. Partially to save himself a lot of grief, but also to launch the legal case of 'Can a President pardon himself?' that's never been tested. It would be interesting to see a Biden self-pardon come before the majority Trump-loyalist SCOTUS. Their heads would probably explode trying to say 'no' to a Biden self pardon yet preserve the possibility of a Trump self-pardon in 2028.

SerendipityJane · 02/12/2024 17:23

AcrossthePond55 · 02/12/2024 17:19

@SerendipityJane

I realize that Biden going 'no holds barred' could be a double edged sword in 'normal times'. But since we aren't in normal times and SCROTUS has made it clear he intends to use the US Govt as his personal weapon of revenge and granting of 'favour', how much worse can it get if Biden does a bit of the same thing? (All that is purely rhetorical BTW, I can't see Biden going nuclear)

IMHO Biden needs to pardon himself for 'crimes real or imagined' because I have a feeling that SCROTUS can't wait to launch investigations against him. Partially to save himself a lot of grief, but also to launch the legal case of 'Can a President pardon himself?' that's never been tested. It would be interesting to see a Biden self-pardon come before the majority Trump-loyalist SCOTUS. Their heads would probably explode trying to say 'no' to a Biden self pardon yet preserve the possibility of a Trump self-pardon in 2028.

Edited

I like your thinking 👍

Spandauer · 04/12/2024 14:23

I could actually weep.

The grown-ups have left the building - Trump thread #136
OP posts:
DuncinToffee · 04/12/2024 14:25

Deleted as I crossposted with Spandauer Grin

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