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Tension with DIL - can't see grandchildren anymore

381 replies

namechanged8nov · 08/11/2024 13:46

I don't know what to do and I'm looking for advice.
I'm going to try to be as honest and objective as I can.

My son married my daughter in law a little over three years ago.
To be honest I didn't want the marriage to happen, I didn't like her, I had a bad feeling about her since the day I met her, but there was nothing I could do as my son really loved her.
I made the mistake of being quite direct with her about the way I viewed her. I had no experience back then, and if I could go back I would, but what is done and is done and I considered it water under the bridge.

A few months into their marriage, she got pregnant and the relationship between them started going sour. My son, his siblings and I are very close and often discuss issues, try to resolve them, or simply vent as a family.
I tried to hide my issues with her for the sake of my son and my grandchild and things seemed to get better between us.

When my grandchild was born, things seemed to get a lot better between us, I asked them to move closer (they moved to the other side of the UK for my son's job) so they could have family support (her family lives abroad), they called me to have a "heart-to-heart". She said during that call that she was reluctant to move closer because of "the way she was treated" (which I found unfair, because we did have our fond moments and a great time together, I found it unfair to brush the whole thing away, but I bit my tongue) and that my extended family, whom I stupidly confided in, told her what I said about her behind her back. I was mortified. Again, I was new to all of that and I know I should not have. I don't know who exactly told her all that, but I apologised and she said she would consider the move. The thing is she holds a lot of grudges and doesn't let go.

A few months later, she texts me out of the blue to tell me she had found text messages on my son's phone of a group chat where his brother, my son and I talked about her (back when she was pregnant that is, so there would have to have been some digging). Her text message was something along the lines of "I found text messages where you all said you never wanted the marriage to happen after saying that I had no intention of marrying your son and just wanted to sleep around, that I was not respectable, that I was going to take all his money, to keep his money away from me, that I was after his passport, etc etc..." and that although she wouldn't object to seeing our grandchild, she didn't want to have anything to do with us and that she wasn't going to join us for Christmas". All in all a very dramatic text for something that happened WITHIN PRIVATE CONVERSATIONS a YEAR AGO. The rule was basically that I could go to my son's house, my grandchild would come to see us with his dad, but that she wouldn't join in.

I had my in-laws around when she sent me the text message and I made the mistake of reading it aloud to them. I was very shaken and admittedly quite angry as it meant they were probably not going to move closer anymore, and that new drama started, and I impulsively said in front of them that she was crazy, that she was a bad person and that she was looking for problems scrolling through messages to find conversations that had occurred, once again, a year prior.
Again, nothing hostile was ever said to her face since the day they moved out, I was always kind and courteous to her from that moment. My opinions were shared within private conversations AWAY from her.

I bit my tongue again and tried to give her a call to apologise and asked my son if we could speak to her, but she wouldn't respond.
A couple of months later I came to their house, spoke to her, and things seemed to go back to normal. They moved closer.

In the meantime, our second grandchild was born, and some unfortunate things happened and my son wasn't allowed to be left unsupervised with the children anymore, and my daughter-in-law is the only one who is allowed to supervise contact.

My son came to my house, found an old phone in a box and asked if he could take it to let my daughter in law borrow it because hers was broken and they couldn't afford to get it fixed yet. I allowed it, but shortly after, I got a notification that my Instagram was getting logged into. I called my son who told me it wasn't possible as she wasn't on my phone at that moment and that he had wiped it clean. I obviously didn't say anything to him after that.
I called my other son and expressed my concerns that everything was being logged into and that dodgy things were happening on my phone, and I was obviously very worried about what she was doing. He called my other son and my son came to give me back my phone despite my insistence to let her keep it.

The mistake I made was that my in-laws were there for both these conversations.

Life continued as normal until a few weeks later at a family function. I greeted my son and DIL, played with my grandchildren, all seemed normal up until the end where she looked a bit off. They left.
My son calls me back later that day to ask to have a chat, my daughter-in-law is there with him.
She tells me someone (I don't know who) walked up to her during the function and told her that things were still being said about her. They told her I called her a very bad person, a crazy woman, that she was looking for problems, that I said she was dead to me, that she had crazy episodes, etc... I felt absolutely humiliated and told off like a child. She also told me someone else told her I had been discussing her intimacy with them (I only discussed that matter with ONE person, who wouldn't have told her, so I have no idea how she found out), she refused to tell me who it was but told me that she wouldn't come. I tried to calm things down during the conversation but it didn't work. She was adamant I was not telling her the truth and she wouldn't budge.

She said this time she was going no-contact with me, and because of the unsupervised ruling, this obviously means I will not be seeing the grandchildren.
But it gets worse. She said that "because I felt comfortable speaking ill of her and spreading lies in front of everyone else" she believed I would speak ill of her in front of her children, and that she didn't want me to see them at all, even once my son is allowed to be supervised with them.

My son said he approved of the decision and he had to stand by his wife.
I believe he is being coerced into this, he "HAS" to stand by his wife.
I also believe he is scared that if he says no to his wife, he will only be able to see his children in a contact centre or maybe not at all.

I don't know what to do, I have enough problems as is, my son has enough problems as is, and life as it is is hard enough for all of us without this being added to our circumstances.

I tried to reassure her, told her I was sorry she felt that way, that she was a brave woman and that I liked her, but she wouldn't budge.

My son has tried calling me a few times since but I haven't replied yet. I don't know what to say or what to do going forward.

My grandchildren, whom I adore, are being used as a weapon. This has nothing to do with them. I don't understand why I can't see them.

To add, my son wasn't allowed to be there at the hospital during birth or at the birth registry, so he is not on his second child's birth certificate, which makes things all the more complicated for him.

OP posts:
BarbaraHoward · 08/11/2024 15:58

TheShellBeach · 08/11/2024 15:54

Ah yes. Your wonderful, abusive son.
The son who isn't allowed to see his children till his bail conditions are lifted.
Hmm

Do we know what the son did from previous threads?

notatinydancer · 08/11/2024 15:58

You sound vile. I wouldn't see you either. I wouldn't let you poison my children.

Keyboardgo · 08/11/2024 16:00

Tbh you sound awful, like my PIL, and your DIL has put up with more than I did from mine.

stop talking about her full stop, and your son hardly sounds a prize!

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

TheShellBeach · 08/11/2024 16:01

BarbaraHoward · 08/11/2024 15:58

Do we know what the son did from previous threads?

No. And the OP is keeping it very quiet. She's even claiming it wasn't abusive behaviour, despite telling us her DS is on bail.

Normallynumb · 08/11/2024 16:02

You can't keep your mouth shut can you!!!
So much for " biting your tongue"

YearningForAWinteryWinter · 08/11/2024 16:04

Why don't people just put their energy into being nice and pleasant rather than being mean and nasty?
I never get this.

Gymnopedie · 08/11/2024 16:13

She didn't accept my apology

Some things are unforgiveable. Mother Theresa would have been hard pushed to accept an apology for the things you said.

Cheshireicecreaminacone · 08/11/2024 16:13

Good on DIL for having clear boundaries. You sound all like a nasty bunch of bullies. I wouldn't have you in my or my DC's life either.

Baxterbaxter · 08/11/2024 16:19

I couldn’t read all of it but you sound very toxic. All of the issues you have outlined are the cause of your own words and actions. I hope your DIL is far away from you and your family and living a good life

kittensinthekitchen · 08/11/2024 16:20

So your son is a risk to his children, but it's not his fault?

I wonder where on earth he has learned that his own behaviours are not his fault? Who did he learn that from? Hmm

If this is all true - and usually that would indicate it's even worse than you've described - I hope she takes the kids and disappears with them, before you and your son cause them some real harm.

TofuTart · 08/11/2024 16:24

My son said he approved of the decision and he had to stand by his wife
I believe he is being coerced into this, he "HAS" to stand by his wife

No, he's standing by his family that he loves, she hasn't forced him, FFS, he's an adult. 🙄
Your poor DIL. You sound like an utterly toxic nightmare, there's no wonder she doesn't want to be around you anymore

Newgirls · 08/11/2024 16:30

Op I think you have learned some hard lessons.

  1. we don’t get to gossip about people behind their backs without repercussions
  2. sometimes our own kids are not who we think they are / behave as we wish

if your wish is to see your grandchildren then you can wait and see but also maybe simply understand that their mum wants to protect them and that’s her right

QueenTweenandKingTeen · 08/11/2024 16:56

How were you "direct with her about the way you felt"?

What has your son done to be denied unsupervised access/not be on the BC?

OP, I appreciate you want to see your children, but if you were my mother or MIL, with your attitude as it is, I would not permit it. You seem to consistently and regularly slate your DIL. I would not trust you not to try to poison the minds of my children with your views of me - your DIL has been more than forgiving, but she can't trust you. You have acted time and again in the same way, and have not learned your lessons. Though as a woman old enough to be a grandmother, surely you are way past the age of needing to learn such lessons!!! My nine year old knows not to talk badly of other people, you must be at least 40, probably nearer 60. I appreciate you have had a lot of people on here say that you sound awful, and I am afraid to say, you really do. You need to do a lot of work on yourself, because you don't seem capable of understanding why a woman would want to protect her children from someone like you (and their own father - why?!).

C8H10N4O2 · 08/11/2024 17:00

kittensinthekitchen · 08/11/2024 16:20

So your son is a risk to his children, but it's not his fault?

I wonder where on earth he has learned that his own behaviours are not his fault? Who did he learn that from? Hmm

If this is all true - and usually that would indicate it's even worse than you've described - I hope she takes the kids and disappears with them, before you and your son cause them some real harm.

I wonder where on earth he has learned that his own behaviours are not his fault? Who did he learn that from?

From parents who set their adult son a curfew then blame the DiL when son fails to return at curfew time. Om forbid mummy's best boy take responsible for his own shocking "not allowed to see children unsupervised" behaviour.

I wonder what will be in next week's episode of this ridiculous scenario.

Rachie1973 · 08/11/2024 17:01

namechanged8nov · 08/11/2024 14:51

But people change and learn. I know I've changed and learned a lot.

Not enough it seems, as you keep repeating your dreadful behaviour

Boomer55 · 08/11/2024 17:03

OP - this site offers support to those estranged:

www.gransnet.com/forums/estrangement

Allthehorsesintheworld · 08/11/2024 17:04

namechanged8nov · 08/11/2024 13:52

How so? As long as nothing is said to her face I don't see what I did wrong. I keep my distance, I barely ever call or go to theirs, I give them space. I even bought her gifts recently.

Sometimes in-laws don't get along with each other, it happens, there's no need to take dramatic and drastic measures and go no contact.

My in-laws treated me like rubbish, I was still polite and courteous with them.

Edited

You disparaged her to numerous people.
That alone was awful.
No , we don’t always like the people our children marry but it’s not our choice, it’s their. We have to make the best of it, get to know them, see their good points.
I wasn’t keen on one of my DD choice of husband. It took years of patience and then I could see his good points. I focus on these!!

Sadly I think you’ve done too much mud slinging to ever go back from this.

HashtagShitShop · 08/11/2024 18:06

namechanged8nov · 08/11/2024 15:04

Because the house isn't a hotel. It's sensible to expect someone to come back at a certain time.

But it was down to your SON When he came home, not her.

You know, the son who isn't allowed unsupervised access legally by the courts to his own children?

Your wonderful darling precious boy who chose the lady he wanted to marry and start a family with because he loved her so much.

... So much that he joined in slagging her off with his family.

But of course, she's "bad!" because she's from a different culture and "has a face like thunder and doesn't say morning to anyone.

Ever thought she's so upset because she's homesick, potentially worried about her family back home in the war, being racially abused by her inlaws, her husband has done something so bad he cannot be left alone with the children so she's likely exhausted and depressed because despite all that he also slags her off with his mother and the family. She might even be being told by your precious boy that she has to stay with him despite what he's done or she'll lose the kids because she's from a different country and could be the one put inside (given your posts I would bet he's as bad as you)

Said mother has been given lots of second chances by the daughter in law but still continues to slag her off and pretend to be nice to her face only and uses every single slight against her.

But yeah. Your daughter in law is the bad one.

Meadowfinch · 08/11/2024 19:20

namechanged8nov · 08/11/2024 15:16

But I have apologised. what else can I do if she doesn't want to see me again? how else am I supposed to apologise again?

No, OP, don't apologise again, because you don't mean it and that is obvious.

You aren't sorry you said all those vile things about your dil. You are just upset that you can't have your own way and see your grandchildren.

Think dispassionately for a moment, what do you offer? Spite, nastiness, venomous gossip, racism, bigotry. Genuinely, perhaps you should accept that you are so unpleasant, your dgcs are better off without you in their lives.

Or you go back to basics. Send cards and presents for the children at Christmas and don't expect anything in return. Don't ask for anything in return. Remember the children's birthdays. Do the same.

At some point in the future, your son and DIL may try to re-establish a relationship but that MUST be up to them. You have forfeit any rights you may once have had.

Zanonie · 08/11/2024 19:52

How do you know your son isn't going to be charged by the police? He must have done something pretty bad to not be allowed unsupervised access to his children.

radiator2 · 08/11/2024 20:04

Honestly OP, you sound nuttier than a fruitcake. You have gossiped on several occasions about your poor DIL, who it sounds has the weight of the world on her right now. I don’t know why you’re surprised she doesn’t want her children around you. I promise you kids observe a lot, if you see them again or not I’m sure they’ll grow up to know how awful your behaviour is. I have a grandmother like you and despite my DM putting up with all her bullshit I saw through it all and have nothing to do with the woman now. If you truly are sorry you should give her the space that she needs and reflect on your terrible behaviour. You claim to have learnt and changed, but your post shows otherwise

CountryGirlInTheCity · 08/11/2024 20:05

It’s not really surprising that your DIL won’t accept your apology, because you don’t sound at all sorry to me. You say you’ve apologised but you don’t appear to accept how wrongly you have actually treated your DIL. She will be completely aware of this!

The thing is, she holds all the cards when it comes to your grandchildren and she has decided you can’t see them. You have utterly shot yourself in the foot. You are simply receiving the consequences for your actions? You can’t see your GC because you have been so unkind to your DIL that now she has decided to protect her relationship with her children because she feels (justifiably) that you may threaten this. What we do and say to and about people has repercussions and you are receiving justice for what you have said and done, it’s as simple as that. Did you really think you were somehow immune to this? You speak as if you’re somehow the victim, when you are in fact the aggressor and you try to push the blame onto those who passed on your vicious comments and the fact you’re new to being a MIL. In fact your behaviour is all your choice. You are the only one to blame in this situation and you really need to face up to that.

If this issue is to be resolved at all (and it may already be too late for that given how many chances she has already given you) you are going to have to be incredibly humble and patient. You are going to have to convey through your words and actions that you recognise you’ve been in the wrong and that you deserve the treatment you’re getting. If you truly believe this and act accordingly you may repair the situation eventually but there are no guarantees. However from everything I’ve read so far you’re miles away from this.

luckylavender · 08/11/2024 20:08

Goodness. I would be telling your DIL to run like the wind and never look back. And my children would be nowhere near you in her shoes. How many times did you bjtch about her and get caught out and never learned?

KenAdams · 09/11/2024 09:36

What is your son on bail for?

YouveGotAFastCar · 09/11/2024 15:28

You don't apologise again.

You don't force your son into an awkward situation around contacting your grandchildren.

Neither of them want you to have contact, and they are the parents, so you are no contact for now. Perhaps over time, one or both of them will soften, but I wouldn't expect it - Accept things as they are, and if it gets better, thank your lucky stars then. Realistically, they're unlikely to have done this without considering the consequences.

You wouldn't be seeing my son again. He doesn't have contact with some of his grandparents because they're horrible, toxic people, and we don't want him to exposed to that. You would also fall under that rule. They don't see him now and they won't see him when he's older. When he's an adult, and more able to spot and cope with toxicity, he can make his own call.

Maybe by that point, you'll be a bit nicer.

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